Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
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Desert Hound
DA
Actual real world data shows otherwise.
And related to that now after listening to you compare regions/states/countries for a yr ...now within the past week ago you don't like. Mainly because you cannot explain why CA with some of the most strict policies has done no better covid wise compares to the other 2 largest states in the union who took very different policy decisions.
If masks made a significant difference the real world data would show it. It doesn't. To be honest if it did, you would be referencing the data ALL the time.
Desert Hound
DA
Also I am a skeptic.
Over the past yr the various governments have constantly changed their opinion on various items. Masks being one of them.
Now they want masks because they want to be able to offer up some solution. So we have some recent small studies put out by the governments that support their policy.
The problem I have is that the CDC studied mask usage over the course of decades. During those decades there was no political pressure one way or the other.
The studies found that masks didn't stop the spread of the flu. More interestingly these studies where done mainly in medical settings. Settings where you had professionals who knew how to use masks, used new masks, following hygiene protocol, etc. And masks didn't work.
That is research over decades.
Now think about that and then factor in that covid supposedly spreads easier vs the flu.
I am not skeptical about the decades of studies. I am however very skeptical of new studies that now contradict decades of research while at the same time mirroring the political policy .
Over the past yr the various governments have constantly changed their opinion on various items. Masks being one of them.
Now they want masks because they want to be able to offer up some solution. So we have some recent small studies put out by the governments that support their policy.
The problem I have is that the CDC studied mask usage over the course of decades. During those decades there was no political pressure one way or the other.
The studies found that masks didn't stop the spread of the flu. More interestingly these studies where done mainly in medical settings. Settings where you had professionals who knew how to use masks, used new masks, following hygiene protocol, etc. And masks didn't work.
That is research over decades.
Now think about that and then factor in that covid supposedly spreads easier vs the flu.
I am not skeptical about the decades of studies. I am however very skeptical of new studies that now contradict decades of research while at the same time mirroring the political policy .
Desert Hound
DA
I notice that clip doesn't talk about kids actually getting the virus. I suspect if they had the data it would be front and center.
So we get.. we don't like this because people might get sick...but don't have any evidence of people actually getting sick.
Actual data, as interpreted by whom? By you?
You don’t have the statistical background to run the numbers. You have, what? An MBA? For biostatistical work, an MBA is weaker than the first two years of an undergraduate stats degree.
You’re still trying to compare viral growth patterns when one strain has R0=3 and the other strain has R0=4. Then you claim “Look, the state with the more transmissible virus had an outbreak!”.
What did you expect? Next you’re going to tell me that a Viper is faster than a Dart, even though both are Dodge vehicles. Clearly the Viper has a better driver.
In this case, the Dart came is slightly ahead of the Viper, and you’re giving the driver no credit.
Hound, we all know what this was about and just makes me sick to my stomach. Am I surprised by how some adults use kids as pawns so they can win? Hell no!!!! Sad state of affairs, MOO!
They do in the full segment talk about some infections back East, but no mention of the severity. I would assume if it was severe illness or deaths they would have mentioned it. But yes more about negative perceptions than actual risk.
That’s news media. It’s hard to tell a story in 3 minutes. So you cut corners and group things together. From a disease perspective, let them play is completely different from driving to Yuma. But it gets lumped together because they have no time to talk about local/travel and indoor/outdoor.
You have an outbreak from an indoor travel tournament in Placer, and it gets used to justify cracking down on local outdoor play.
100%
Desert Hound
DA
I unfortunately only saw the clip you posted and not the full thing.
Desert Hound
DA
Well again you cannot seem to point to any success. If they worked the data would be rather clear.
Now you seemed rather concerned that TX was dropping mask mandates and allowing biz to be 100% open.
So if masks, biz not at capacity, etc work, we should expect to see their covid stats start noticeably deviating from the rest of the US right? And rather soon right?
Or will you move the goalposts again?
You’re right. Mask advocates can’t point to any successes. Except for all of East Asia. And the Pacific Northweast. And Germany. So, masks haven’t worked for anyone, except for about 2 billion people.
What happens in Texas depends on how many Texans actually make use of Abbott’s decision.
Major retailers are keeping their mask rules. If smaller stores follow Walmart’s example, you may not see a significant change in mask usage.
Willing to take me up on the continental US question? compare death rates in all 48 continental US states, exclude anyone with a spring peak or high transmissibility dominant variant, and look up the mask policies of the best and worst 10 states.
Fair measure, or not?
whatithink
GOLD
I wonder how much the exposure to SARs and H1N1 in East Asia, from a mask / precaution perspective along with an immunity build up, has impacted the overall deaths. I do think their ability to act quickly and get compliance immediately was definitely helped. The immunity one, idk, but its possible I'd think, but I'm no expert.
You can look at the 15 year old studies of SARS-cov1 seroprevalence. SARS was quite rare, infecting less than 1% of the population. As such, cross immunity from SARS is not a good explanation for the low incidence of covid in East Asia.
Risk-stratified seroprevalence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus among children in Hong Kong - PubMed
As in adults, subclinical severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus infection was rare in children in the 2003 epidemic. The very low seroprevalence implies little or no population herd immunity to protect against future resurgence of severe acute respiratory syndrome.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Cultural habits from SARS, like mask wearing and staying home when mildly sick, are a more likely explanation for the east asian experience with covid.
Here, you go, hound.
Real scientists did the county by county statistical regression analysis on 49 states worth of indoor dining and mask mandates.
Mask mandates work to reduce covid. Indoor dining works to increase covid. p<0.01
Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing ...
This report describes changes in COVID-19 case and death growth ...
www.cdc.gov
I know. You’re imagining a giant egghead conspiracy to lie to you about masks. Because, an international science conspiracy is more likely than you making a mistake.