Athletes vs NCAA

E

espola

Has anyone figured out yet what the impact of the 9-0 (!!!) SCOTUS ruling will be?

Will we return to the days of unlimited auctions for players that brought about the formation of the NCAA in the first place?

How much beyond the current "cost of attendance" will be allowed?

Looking in a different direction, will this mean the end of scholarship-count limits for sports like soccer?
 
espola said:
Has anyone figured out yet what the impact of the 9-0 (!!!) SCOTUS ruling will be?

Will we return to the days of unlimited auctions for players that brought about the formation of the NCAA in the first place?

How much beyond the current "cost of attendance" will be allowed?

Looking in a different direction, will this mean the end of scholarship-count limits for sports like soccer?
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All unknown. From what I read, it just looks like the payments (whatever they may be) are supposed to be directed to "Education" related costs. I'm sure that can be twisted and turned anyway you like.
 
Top college athletes should get a sexy internship that pays between 350-500k annually.

Plus tuition and living expenses for undergrad and grad school.

Maybe top athletes could get some endorsement money too.

I think sports like soccer will see less scholarships under the new rules because there’s going to be less funding because more money will go to top athletes in revenue generating sports.
 
MacDre said:
Top college athletes should get a sexy internship that pays between 350-500k annually.

Plus tuition and living expenses for undergrad and grad school.

Maybe top athletes could get some endorsement money too.

I think sports like soccer will see less scholarships under the new rules because there’s going to be less funding because more money will go to top athletes in revenue generating sports.
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What about Title IX?
 
Dubs said:
All unknown. From what I read, it just looks like the payments (whatever they may be) are supposed to be directed to "Education" related costs. I'm sure that can be twisted and turned anyway you like.
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I haven't read the actual SCOTUS text yet, but the news reports mentioned adding "computers" to the allowed educational expenses. Maybe that can be twisted into the latest i-phone every year.
 
outside! said:
What about Title IX?
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Competing social policies. Equal access to sports by women vs what appears to be the exploitation of black athletes primarily, and some antitrust stuff.

I only skimmed a few articles, but I think expert testimony supported the value of services for all D1 football at 350 k average per player and 500k average per player for basketball. To me this suggest it would be easy to challenge anything less than the above as unreasonable based on the strength of the Supreme Court ruling.

This is a clear redistribution of resources.
 
I also think it would be reasonable to give a top 10% quality athlete a 2 million dollar per year internship as a coach since some coaches make more than 10 million annually.
 
MacDre said:
Top college athletes should get a sexy internship that pays between 350-500k annually.

Plus tuition and living expenses for undergrad and grad school.

Maybe top athletes could get some endorsement money too.

I think sports like soccer will see less scholarships under the new rules because there’s going to be less funding because more money will go to top athletes in revenue generating sports.
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How does that work with title IX?

When schools start offering half million dollar "educational" packages, do they have to match it dollar for dollar on the women's side?

If so, men's soccer will get hammered, but women's may do just fine.
 
Great
dad4 said:
How does that work with title IX?

When schools start offering half million dollar "educational" packages, do they have to match it dollar for dollar on the women's side?

If so, men's soccer will get hammered, but women's may do just fine.
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Great question. We are in new territory here. Lawyers always talk about the objective reasonble person standard so I don’t think female athletes will get what football and basketball players get dollar for dollar because their services have a lower market value. but I think the female soccer players will get equal in a sense that they will be entitled to and internship similar to football and basketball players where they can earn what is determined to be fair market value for their services.

we know that there’s a strong social policy to support women in sports and to stop the exploitation of collegiate athletes.

I think coaches and administrators are gonna be the biggest losers here because there’s no social policy to protect their astronomical salaries.

Boys have MLS academies so maybe they’ll be okay.
 
MacDre said:
Great

Great question. We are in new territory here. Lawyers always talk about the objective reasonble person standard so I don’t think female athletes will get what football and basketball players get dollar for dollar because their services have a lower market value. but I think the female soccer players will get equal in a sense that they will be entitled to and internship similar to football and basketball players where they can earn what is determined to be fair market value for their services.

we know that there’s a strong social policy to support women in sports and to stop the exploitation of collegiate athletes.

I think coaches and administrators are gonna be the biggest losers here because there’s no social policy to protect their astronomical salaries.

Boys have MLS academies so maybe they’ll be okay.
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Title IX swings both ways a bit so this will hurt smaller programs at D1 and D2 levels for sure. Especially, those that do not generate revenue. Expect a D1 program whose football team pays for the men's soccer program and the women's soccer program to not pay those athletes as the reduce other revenues. This decision will mostly have an affect on Men's Basketball and Football players in D1. The decision also address compensation for academics and not payment outside of that. So you now may be talking about additional moneys toward laptops, food, off campus housing and transportation. It does not address some of the other issues but does sit blindly on additional compensation challenges.
Additionally, remember there is creative accounting to show losses so their now needs to be more audits. Alabama charges a fee to the football program for usage of libraries for tutoring but does not charge that fee to the women's soccer team. This does not end today but is just a notch to move forward.
This does not address compensation for likeness (Ed O'Bannon rule) either I believe.
 
dad4 said:
How does that work with title IX?

When schools start offering half million dollar "educational" packages, do they have to match it dollar for dollar on the women's side?

If so, men's soccer will get hammered, but women's may do just fine.
Click to expand...

Soccer is a cheap sport, and it is easy to restore Title IX balance to it by increasing the scholarships on the men's side either by headcount or equivalency. The ones at risk, to me, are the expensive sports like ice hockey.

The elephant in the room is college football. It is impossible to come up with a Title IX balance for that. Some schools try with field hockey and the unbalance scholarship cunts in other sports such as soccer, but it's not really equal in any sense.
 
espola said:
Soccer is a cheap sport, and it is easy to restore Title IX balance to it by increasing the scholarships on the men's side either by headcount or equivalency. The ones at risk, to me, are the expensive sports like ice hockey.

The elephant in the room is college football. It is impossible to come up with a Title IX balance for that. Some schools try with field hockey and the unbalance scholarship cunts in other sports such as soccer, but it's not really equal in any sense.
[/QUO

It is easier to cut men's programs than to add women's programs. Ask Stanford how they handled it. Their V'Ball program was not terrible and now no more.
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What I think is the relevant clause in the opinion --

This relief focuses on allowing schools to offer scholarships for “graduate degrees” or “vocational school” and to pay for things like “computers” and “tutoring.”

Nothing else changes. Or did I get that wrong?
 
espola said:
What I think is the relevant clause in the opinion --

This relief focuses on allowing schools to offer scholarships for “graduate degrees” or “vocational school” and to pay for things like “computers” and “tutoring.”

Nothing else changes. Or did I get that wrong?
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The school can now offer scholarships which last beyond eligibility. Play 4 years for us, take 6 to graduate.

It is a better deal for a kid whose first 2 years really ought to be remedial. It gives them a safety net if they don't get that pro deal.
 
dad4 said:
The school can now offer scholarships which last beyond eligibility. Play 4 years for us, take 6 to graduate.

It is a better deal for a kid whose first 2 years really ought to be remedial. It gives them a safety net if they don't get that pro deal.
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My son took 2 extra quarters to graduate. During that time, he had a part-time hourly job in the athletic department that on average paid better than his scholarship.
 
MacDre said:
Great

Great question. We are in new territory here. Lawyers always talk about the objective reasonble person standard so I don’t think female athletes will get what football and basketball players get dollar for dollar because their services have a lower market value. but I think the female soccer players will get equal in a sense that they will be entitled to and internship similar to football and basketball players where they can earn what is determined to be fair market value for their services.

we know that there’s a strong social policy to support women in sports and to stop the exploitation of collegiate athletes.

I think coaches and administrators are gonna be the biggest losers here because there’s no social policy to protect their astronomical salaries.

Boys have MLS academies so maybe they’ll be okay.
Click to expand...
would think the Scotus ruling is a windfall for women's sports due to Title IX and that the ruling opens the door (and rightly so) to paying college athletes a bit closer to their market worth, which is way more than just tuition, books and living expenses.
 
Kante said:
would think the Scotus ruling is a windfall for women's sports due to Title IX and that the ruling opens the door (and rightly so) to paying college athletes a bit closer to their market worth, which is way more than just tuition, books and living expenses.
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It will reduce many programs on the mens side. It will also cut certain the outlier women's programs so the football and mens basketball programs can support the additional scholarship offerings. It will help certain women's programs like basketball softball and volleyball and most likely soccer but the yang are programs like tennis, water polo,, and cross country could be cut depending on the numbers. Who could thrive from this is D3 schools and their programs because it may be the only alternative for some men's sports. That is my take on this.
 
Kante said:
would think the Scotus ruling is a windfall for women's sports due to Title IX and that the ruling opens the door (and rightly so) to paying college athletes a bit closer to their market worth, which is way more than just tuition, books and living expenses.
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This is also very STRONG law if you look at the evolution of the case. The District Court, Appellate, and SCOTUS were all on the same page on this one. I don’t think I have ever read a case where the SCOTUS unanimously agreed with the liberal 9th circuit.

I saw in the NCAA press release how they were trying to talk tuff about still having discretion without acknowledging that the exercise of their discretion has to be objectively reasonable.

Looks like the NCAA will need to get “molywopped” in court a few more times before they get the message.
 
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