Dirty players

baldref said:
there are referees who are doing centers above their heads. there are referees who are "not good". there are referees who make mistakes and don't see everything. but the percentage of these examples is very small. there are parents who don't have a clue what they are watching when they watch their kids play. the percentage of that is very high.
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I think the percentage is low on both sides. It's precisely the perception that the percentage is higher on the other side that creates animosity.
 
Laced - It's about embellishment. Girls are tougher than boys. They don't complain, cry, or fall around faking. Standard refs are looking to make an extra buck over the weekend, some have experience, some don't. They do their best. I am very appreciative of them in general. But really, girls aren't allowed to embellish, celebrate, etc. It's that double standard.

Girls are tough on the field. They don't go down. They don't complain. They don't talk back. They never (or rarely) question a call. Why? Ingrained. Because they are reprimanded. Because we have different expectations from our men and women behavior. How can we expect the refs to be different if we don't teach them a different protocol. I'm sure gender based situations never arise in their classes. Please tell me I'm wrong.
 
Laced said:
I think the percentage is low on both sides. It's precisely the perception that the percentage is higher on the other side that creates animosity.
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we definitely disagree on that. and being i've seen hundreds of more games than you, and ran up and down sidelines listening to ridiculous comments for many, many years, i believe i have a better insight on the reality than you.

and you would think that i'm speaking of lower level younger games. but, some of the most clueless and misinformed parents i have ever run across, were ecnl champions league games, surf cup olders games, etc.....
it boggles my mind that these parents have kids that play at the highest levels, and they really have no idea what it is they're watching.
 
I think part of the problem with refs at tournaments is they are working various levels/age groups over a weekend.
A u15 flight 1 boys game should be called a bit different than a u10 girls flight 3 game.
What's barely a foul in u15 boys might send a 9 year old girl flying.
Say what you will about AYSO refs, but the ones who work u12 and above games usually call a pretty good game. Probably a little tighter than other refs. Might slow the game a bit, but it's a safer game b
(Example at San Clemente Surf Cup 04. AYSO refs worked a game and the sidelines were all saying how good of a job the ref did. Now, these refs also work the club circuit, but they mostly cover AYSO games during the season).
 
I just wish the AR's were aligned better with the last defender for calling offside. It can be such a game changer as it can be the difference between a break away goal or not. That plus the girl that is in a offside position getting called for offside when she isn't even near the play.

That goes all the way up to the Olympics and Professional Leagues, which have the advantage of being able to review if the call was right or wrong(for the TV audience, not for changing the call). Seeing them make mistakes does help you understand why it happens at lower levels. It is such a difficult call and I understand that, but can also be very pivotable in a game. Probably no way to ever get around it.
 
socalkdg said:
I just wish the AR's were aligned better with the last defender for calling offside. It can be such a game changer as it can be the difference between a break away goal or not.
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Yep. For the $20+ they get paid in cash to watch the games along the touchlines, the ARs could at least do the bare minimum requirements of their jobs - stay with the 2nd-to-last defender, follow the ball to the goal line to confirm a goal/no-goal. And actually calling fouls right in front of them would be good, too.
 
One of the first things I used to teach kids when I coached rec was that you can't outrun a pass. Nobody can outrun a hard shot from the edge of the box to the goal line, so it will be difficult and sometimes impossible for the AR to be all the way to the goal line when a shot arrives at the mouth of the goal, especially on a breakaway. Having said that, this past year DD's team had two goals called for balls that were in the goal, but were cleared out of the air by the keeper reaching back into the goal before they hit the net. Most refs are pretty good. Some are excellent. A small percentage of experienced refs are not very good but still get assignments due to the shortage of refs. Just another reason for parents to keep their mouths shut.
 
outside! said:
One of the first things I used to teach kids when I coached rec was that you can't outrun a pass. Nobody can outrun a hard shot from the edge of the box to the goal line, so it will be difficult and sometimes impossible for the AR to be all the way to the goal line when a shot arrives at the mouth of the goal, especially on a breakaway. Having said that, this past year DD's team had two goals called for balls that were in the goal, but were cleared out of the air by the keeper reaching back into the goal before they hit the net. Most refs are pretty good. Some are excellent. A small percentage of experienced refs are not very good but still get assignments due to the shortage of refs. Just another reason for parents to keep their mouths shut.
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Did you teach your rec goalkeepers that same trick? I mean skill?
 
jrcaesar said:
Yep. For the $20+ they get paid in cash to watch the games along the touchlines, the ARs could at least do the bare minimum requirements of their jobs - stay with the 2nd-to-last defender, follow the ball to the goal line to confirm a goal/no-goal. And actually calling fouls right in front of them would be good, too.
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as i pointed out before, very often parents like yourself, are misinformed or just plain don't know what they're talking about. as for $20 paid in cash..... some games are cash, some aren't. an AR does not make $20 per hour, especially when factoring in things like being at the field early, time between games, etc. etc. the referee team makes $1.50 per minute of game time, with the lion's share of that going to the center.
i'm not sure you know what you mean when you point out the "bare minimum" required by an AR. as for calling a foul directly in front of them.... is it a foul? or is it what the biased parent thinks is a foul against their team? is there an advantage that possibly is developing? if it is a foul, would stopping play make the game better? is the center referee looking right at it, and therefore even if the AR might have called a foul, he is allowing the center, who is ultimately in charge of the game, to make that decision?
my point being, you just might not know quite as much as you think when you try to critique someone's job, that you aren't trained for.
my advice: go watch your son or daughter play and enjoy the game. it isn't life or death no matter what level they play at. if you disagree with a call, get over it, and get back to enjoying the game. you aren't going to change the call no matter what you say or do. in the end, it's about kids playing soccer, not about parents obsessing over whether the referee's assistant is running hard enough to make them happy.
 
baldref said:
my point being, you just might not know quite as much as you think when you try to critique someone's job, that you aren't trained for.
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I'm trained for it. And my daughter is working her way up (via AYSO badges and games) to run USSF games in a couple years.

The point: There are people struggling at $8/hour jobs at Wal-Mart who aren't paid as well as most ARs. Just asking them to respect the game as others do.
 
As a veteran bald referee, I'm sure you know exactly the type of ARs I'm describing. They are out there. But I understand why you are making your points.

Adding: Nobody wrote about or suggesting disrespecting the referees while on the field. That's why there are discussion boards, to gripe among friends. :)
 
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Observed a game this weekend where a girl (in a younger age group) took every opportunity to punch, elbow, kick, pull jersey, pull hair and even bite the opposition (sadly only have video of the jersey pull into a bite). She was skilled at waiting the split second after the ref turned around to start most of her assaults. She earned a yellow card after one of five penalties were observed. After the linesman saw her kicking a girl from behind as the ref walked away she was told not to return to the field. Inexplicably, she was not shown the second yellow allowing her team to play on with a full compliment. In all, she had at least eleven such penalties in this game alone. From what I understand, the refs were warned about this player before the game. After the game her mom was overheard saying, "those girls were afraid of you and wanted you off the field. You just keep playing your game!" The thug girl's coach was heard by both benches cursing the other teams coach for bringing up the unnecessarily rough play. Yes refs have some culpability in allowing thuggish play to continue and not truly punishing it. However, isn't it more the coach and parents responsibility and in this case fault for fostering such play?
 
The crazy parents, unscrupulous coaches/clubs and obviously thin skinned holier than thou refs who cannot take constructive criticism without getting all defensive is why I am glad my daughter is almost done with club soccer.
 
timbuck said:
How would you suggest this be taught to a 9 year old?
Coach: "Suzie, if the fast girl gets the ball in open space, you need to smash her into the ground. Just make sure you're not in the penalty area.

Suzie: "But coach, what if I hurt her?"

Coach: "What if she scores?"

Go Team!!!
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Not naming any teams, but I saw a coach run a drill with U9s were "anything goes." It was a 1 v 1 drill with goals. Most kids just dribbled the ball and played as usual with a bit more elbowing and shoving, but there were a few kids who became beasts. I saw a kid drag a girl down by her jersey from behind stomp on her when she was down, and take the ball into goal. I also saw a technically advanced player easily dribble past a player in the 1 v 1, and take off at a sprint. The other player grabbed her ponytail as she sprinted by with the ball and pulled as hard as she could. The girl's head who was dribbling was pulled back with such force that it pulled her off her feet and she landed on her back. Thankfully she wasn't hurt, but there was a lot of crying after that practice.
 
wildcat66 said:
The crazy parents, unscrupulous coaches/clubs and obviously thin skinned holier than thou refs who cannot take constructive criticism without getting all defensive is why I am glad my daughter is almost done with club soccer.
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That's It? Wow is all I can say.
 
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