Why did the ref's take away this goal???

I'm still trying to figure out and understand all the rules in soccer, especially when a player is called off-sides on a indirect kick. Still a little irked about this call reversal that ultimately decided our fate and taking away any chances we had of earning enough points to make the final. I'm attaching video of the goal in question that was taken away from us. Any feedback about why this was called off-sides would be appreciated.

Date of Offense: 6/23/2018 at the F.C. Golden State Cup Vs. Temecula Hawk Hawks


Thanks,
FCGS Goalkeeper Dad
 
That's not a great angle. The assistant referee would have been in a much better position to judge. Based on your video, it appeared to be a close call. Again, from the very poor angle of the shot, it appears that the defender marking the player in white might have been keeping her on. Because of the bad angle and the AR having had a good look at it, I'm not willing to say the video proves she was on-side, but I suspect a better angle might.
upload_2018-6-23_22-23-15.png
I've done some drills when players timing their runs or waiting to get on-side before the kick. I've learned that when a player is making a run like that and they appear just to be off-side when the ball is kicked, they probably aren't.
 
Hard to be definitive from this angle. The girl definitely started her run before the kick, but can't tell if she was in an offside position at the point the ball is kicked. The AR has the best view, so give him/her the benefit of the doubt. If the girl who scored was already past the last defender when the ball was kicked, it's the right call. The keeper touching the ball doesn't re establish the player as onside in that scenario.
 
I totally understand about what your saying about the AR having the best view. I guess it would be easier to accept if not for the fact that this particular off-sides call impacted our chances on making it to the championship game essentially knocking us out. While I respect the difficult decisions and rulings each AR has to make under stressful tournament conditions, sometimes making game changing judgment calls while trying to enforce the rules and regulations of Soccer, I am still deeply disappointed and bothered at the lack of consistency on which these rulings are made day in and day out, from one tournament to the next, making times like these very upsetting and almost to much for one to bear. This is not to say that we think every Ref out there is inconsistent and makes bad calls, as we have also seen our share of good Ref's who do an outstanding job that are fair and just when making calls and rulings on the field, but most importantly, they are always consistent in there decisions and fairness, making sure all calls, fouls, penalty's, and so forth are equally called between both teams.

Nonetheless, it was a very confusing sequence of events in which the center ref and line judge had to confer for several minutes of discussion before ruling off-sides, even though initially the line judge never raised his flag to indicate an off-sides penalty against us. As upsetting as it was to our players and coach, it was definitely a hard lesson to be learned about how not knowing or understanding the most basic rules of soccer, can greatly affect and influence the outcome of meaningful matches during both tournament and league play. So now, as we move forward and shake off this painful loss, we will take from this experience, the importance of why every player should know how to interpret and better understand the rules of soccer, which will also boost our soccer IQ and playing knowledge, making us smarter players.

FCGS Goalkeeper Dad......
 
Every team that has played for a few seasons has won or lost a game on a play like this.
Whether the ref was right or wrong, there were another 59-79 minutes (depending on the length of games in this Tournament) for your team to impact the outcome of this particular game.
Soccer can be very cruel, with the losing team often being the team that played a better overall game. Most other sports usually reward the team that deserves to win with a victory.
 
Every team that has played for a few seasons has won or lost a game on a play like this.
Whether the ref was right or wrong, there were another 59-79 minutes (depending on the length of games in this Tournament) for your team to impact the outcome of this particular game.
Soccer can be very cruel, with the losing team often being the team that played a better overall game. Most other sports usually reward the team that deserves to win with a victory.

Nonsense.
 
I totally understand about what your saying about the AR having the best view. I guess it would be easier to accept if not for the fact that this particular off-sides call impacted our chances on making it to the championship game essentially knocking us out. While I respect the difficult decisions and rulings each AR has to make under stressful tournament conditions, sometimes making game changing judgment calls while trying to enforce the rules and regulations of Soccer, I am still deeply disappointed and bothered at the lack of consistency on which these rulings are made day in and day out, from one tournament to the next, making times like these very upsetting and almost to much for one to bear. This is not to say that we think every Ref out there is inconsistent and makes bad calls, as we have also seen our share of good Ref's who do an outstanding job that are fair and just when making calls and rulings on the field, but most importantly, they are always consistent in there decisions and fairness, making sure all calls, fouls, penalty's, and so forth are equally called between both teams.

Nonetheless, it was a very confusing sequence of events in which the center ref and line judge had to confer for several minutes of discussion before ruling off-sides, even though initially the line judge never raised his flag to indicate an off-sides penalty against us. As upsetting as it was to our players and coach, it was definitely a hard lesson to be learned about how not knowing or understanding the most basic rules of soccer, can greatly affect and influence the outcome of meaningful matches during both tournament and league play. So now, as we move forward and shake off this painful loss, we will take from this experience, the importance of why every player should know how to interpret and better understand the rules of soccer, which will also boost our soccer IQ and playing knowledge, making us smarter players.

FCGS Goalkeeper Dad......

I'm still trying to figure out and understand all the rules in soccer, especially when a player is called off-sides on a indirect kick. Still a little irked about this call reversal that ultimately decided our fate and taking away any chances we had of earning enough points to make the final. I'm attaching video of the goal in question that was taken away from us. Any feedback about why this was called off-sides would be appreciated.

Date of Offense: 6/23/2018 at the F.C. Golden State Cup Vs. Temecula Hawk Hawks


Thanks,
FCGS Goalkeeper Dad

Direct Answer to your question
What we can see from the video is that 10 yards back from the ball put the defenders somewhere on the 18 yard line. We can also see that the center referee is on the left side of the ball with the player making her run almost directly in front of him and that the center referee should have a good idea of player depth using the 18 yard box line. We don't know the position of the AR, but assume the AR was even with the 2nd to last defender and also has the 18 yard box as an additional visual aid. Looking at the frame where the player strikes the ball is super-close with the attacking player being a foot or two away from even, but the distance, angle and resolution of the camera makes it impossible to tell.

If the player was not in an offside position (even or behind the 2nd to last defender) when the ball was kicked then the goal should have been allowed.

If the player was in an offside position, then the goal was properly disallowed because the goalkeeper did not deliberately play the ball, rather it was a deflection while attempting to make a save, thus, the offside position did not reset.

In this case the referee team (Center and AR) conferred and believed the attacking player had made her run too early, was in an offside position and disallowed the goal. The ruling appears correct.

Note, the AR should not have raised his/her flag until the player in the offside position made a play on the ball. What we see/hear from the video is that the AR raised his/her flag almost immediately after the attacking player touched the ball off the deflection, we hear a whistle, see the center referee raise his had and her a male voice (parent/coach) yell "How is that offsides!?!?!), so I disagree with the assessment that the referee crew was confused.

Enforcing The Laws of the Game requires the referee team to apply those rules based on what they see from their perspective. The referee crew is not allowed to make calls based on what the parents, coach or player perceives. In this case they did that.

All of that said, looking at the video live it appeared the attacker was offside at the time the ball is kicked, but then looking at it frame by frame it appears the attacker may have been even/onside. It was super close.
 
I will keep it short. The AR is calling your player 'offside' because in his/her opinion she was in an offside position when the ball was kicked on the indirect free kick. Even though the ball rebounded off the GK, she 'gained an advantage' from being in an offside position on the kick.

If the original shot had gone in there would be no offside call. The offside call comes from gaining an advantage.
 
I will keep it short. The AR is calling your player 'offside' because in his/her opinion she was in an offside position when the ball was kicked on the indirect free kick. Even though the ball rebounded off the GK, she 'gained an advantage' from being in an offside position on the kick.

If the original shot had gone in there would be no offside call. The offside call comes from gaining an advantage.
Correct, and if the original shot had gone in the goal it would have been disallowed because it was an indirect kick.
 
I totally understand about what your saying about the AR having the best view. I guess it would be easier to accept if not for the fact that this particular off-sides call impacted our chances on making it to the championship game essentially knocking us out. While I respect the difficult decisions and rulings each AR has to make under stressful tournament conditions, sometimes making game changing judgment calls while trying to enforce the rules and regulations of Soccer, I am still deeply disappointed and bothered at the lack of consistency on which these rulings are made day in and day out, from one tournament to the next, making times like these very upsetting and almost to much for one to bear. This is not to say that we think every Ref out there is inconsistent and makes bad calls, as we have also seen our share of good Ref's who do an outstanding job that are fair and just when making calls and rulings on the field, but most importantly, they are always consistent in there decisions and fairness, making sure all calls, fouls, penalty's, and so forth are equally called between both teams.

Nonetheless, it was a very confusing sequence of events in which the center ref and line judge had to confer for several minutes of discussion before ruling off-sides, even though initially the line judge never raised his flag to indicate an off-sides penalty against us. As upsetting as it was to our players and coach, it was definitely a hard lesson to be learned about how not knowing or understanding the most basic rules of soccer, can greatly affect and influence the outcome of meaningful matches during both tournament and league play. So now, as we move forward and shake off this painful loss, we will take from this experience, the importance of why every player should know how to interpret and better understand the rules of soccer, which will also boost our soccer IQ and playing knowledge, making us smarter players.

FCGS Goalkeeper Dad......
The implication of the call shouldn't matter to the referee crew, but it certainly would matter to the teams.

I am glad to hear that the crew conferred before coming to a final conclusion about the result of the play. You should be too. Of all the bad calls you are sure to see, and there are plenty, this is not the one to get all upset over. The referees were in the correct position to make the call. There was no mis-application of the laws of the game, the crew conferred to make sure they all agreed, and went with it.

The only thing that would make you think that it was the incorrect decision is the natural bias you have toward your team. You just have to trust that they did their best.
 
Correct. As long as the ball didn't touch the GK and then go in.
Appreciate all the comments and replies. The more and more I read and research the rules of soccer, I now have a better understanding on how to interpret when a player is off-sides on a direct kick. I'm still pretty new to the game being baptized by fire with both my G06 and G06 playing club, while being the manager of my youngest team. I'll definitely be brushing up on my soccer knowledge from hear on out to better educate our young players so that we don't make the same mistakes again. All we can do is learn from this and become better players. It's been a tough pill to swallow, but I've finally accepted the fact, that based on the AR position and putting myself in his shoes, he made the best decision based on what he saw when he made his ruling.

FCGS Goalkeeper Dad.
 
I also believe this was a “direct free kick” and not an “indirect” free kick as the OP stated.

A referee indicates that a kick is “indirect” by extending his arm straight up into the air. As if to make his body look like the letter “I” for indirect.

An indirect free kick must touch any other player on the field before it goes into the goal for it to be considered a goal.

A direct free kick can go “directly” into the goal.

Indirect free kicks in the attacking end are pretty uncommon. Pass back to the keeper and keeper picking it up inside of the penalty area is one you might see at younger ages.

When a referee rules a player is offside, the other team gets an indirect free kick. You can’t be offside in your own half of the field.
 
.....You can’t be offside in your own half of the field.

That is not correct. You cannot be in an offside position in your own half of the field, but you can be called for an offside infraction in your own half. If a player starts in an offside position in the others teams half of the field and then runs into their own teams half of the field to play the ball, the offside infraction occurred in their own half and the restart is where the player played the ball in their own half. That was a change to the LOTG a couple years ago.
 
That is not correct. You cannot be in an offside position in your own half of the field, but you can be called for an offside infraction in your own half. If a player starts in an offside position in the others teams half of the field and then runs into their own teams half of the field to play the ball, the offside infraction occurred in their own half and the restart is where the player played the ball in their own half. That was a change to the LOTG a couple years ago.
Yeah. I guess. But that was a lot more than I was willing to write with my thumbs.

Curious- have you had to call it that way since it was changed?
 
Yeah. I guess. But that was a lot more than I was willing to write with my thumbs.

Curious- have you had to call it that way since it was changed?

Yes, at least a half dozen times. Always get yelled at by the coach parents and players. I will briefly explain it to the players who sometimes understand.
 
I totally understand about what your saying about the AR having the best view. I guess it would be easier to accept if not for the fact that this particular off-sides call impacted our chances on making it to the championship game essentially knocking us out. While I respect the difficult decisions and rulings each AR has to make under stressful tournament conditions, sometimes making game changing judgment calls while trying to enforce the rules and regulations of Soccer, I am still deeply disappointed and bothered at the lack of consistency on which these rulings are made day in and day out, from one tournament to the next, making times like these very upsetting and almost to much for one to bear. This is not to say that we think every Ref out there is inconsistent and makes bad calls, as we have also seen our share of good Ref's who do an outstanding job that are fair and just when making calls and rulings on the field, but most importantly, they are always consistent in there decisions and fairness, making sure all calls, fouls, penalty's, and so forth are equally called between both teams.

Nonetheless, it was a very confusing sequence of events in which the center ref and line judge had to confer for several minutes of discussion before ruling off-sides, even though initially the line judge never raised his flag to indicate an off-sides penalty against us. As upsetting as it was to our players and coach, it was definitely a hard lesson to be learned about how not knowing or understanding the most basic rules of soccer, can greatly affect and influence the outcome of meaningful matches during both tournament and league play. So now, as we move forward and shake off this painful loss, we will take from this experience, the importance of why every player should know how to interpret and better understand the rules of soccer, which will also boost our soccer IQ and playing knowledge, making us smarter players.

FCGS Goalkeeper Dad......

Using your same logic against you, wouldn’t it have been horrible for the other team If the ref failed to call the offside? Especially if the player was offside. From the angle of your video you can’t tell.
What you should consider is how many scoring opportunities did your team have? Of those how many were you able to convert? Focus on what you can fix. Blown calls are out of your control
 
So the OP accepts that the AR "made the best decision based on what he saw when he made his ruling" but not that the Referee and AR, working together, actually did get the call right - which is confirmed by all of the replies to the original post? :rolleyes:
 
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