Two Ref Crew Question

NickName

SILVER ELITE
I'm bored today so I thought I would throw this one out there.

Background: High school JV with a 2 ref crew. Refs are positioned for a corner kick. Keeper catches then quick plays the ball out. Refs are moving back to position when there is a fairly obvious (from my perspective) offside situation.


My question is; which of the ref crew should be watching for the offside in this particular instance?
First thought: closest ref, but hes out of position. Should it be the far side ref as he is naturally looking down the field?

Disclaimer, my kid is on the team in blue.
Not trying to call out a bad call/no call. Things get missed and its part of the game. Just curious
 
I'm bored today so I thought I would throw this one out there.

Background: High school JV with a 2 ref crew. Refs are positioned for a corner kick. Keeper catches then quick plays the ball out. Refs are moving back to position when there is a fairly obvious (from my perspective) offside situation.


My question is; which of the ref crew should be watching for the offside in this particular instance?
First thought: closest ref, but hes out of position. Should it be the far side ref as he is naturally looking down the field?

Disclaimer, my kid is on the team in blue.
Not trying to call out a bad call/no call. Things get missed and its part of the game. Just curious

You cut the video off before the play ended.
 
The ref that was near midfield. It is his call. He was badly out of position. I am getting my first taste of the two referee system this HS season. I have noticed that some crews position themselves differently than others. Some crews will hug the sidelines and not go past midfield, others will pinch in both on the side and at the midfield line. I have no (formal) training on the two man system so not sure which is correct. Common sense tells me you should be pinching in/down because it is not good to have a ball down in the corner and have both refs 40-50 yards away. But if you pinch too much then you will be left out of position on the quick counterattack like the ref on this video obviously was.
 
No offside, no goal.

I was more after the responsibility of who should have been watching the offside positioning.

I couldn't tell because the video ended whether the ball went over the other end line. If so, then anyone in the stadium coulld have seen that a non-call was the correct call.
 
I was first struck by the disrepair of that field. OMG!!!, that was dirt with some grass, what HS is that?

As noted, the referee closest to the ball was responsible for the near sideline watching and offside. From a terminology standpoint, before the corner kick, our wayward referee was in the "trail" position and once Blue started their attack upfield, the referee now became the "lead" position and should have been hustling to stay even with the line. When the ball was kicked, he immediately turned his head and could have observed the attacker in an offside position and assumed, given the direction and speed of the players, that he was in an offside position at the time the ball was struck.

The problem here is the White defender attempts to "play the ball," but appears to have missed and failed to touch it from the video ... the referee may have saw/heard something different. If white misplayed the ball, offside resets and Blue is not in an offside position.

An offside whistle should not have blown until Blue played the ball, which we never see as there was no GK challenge.

In any case, this is one of the problems with a 2 man system. Its better than 1 man, but not as good as 3 man or 5/6 man.
 
The ref that was to the right of the screen and closest to the player receiving the ball is responsible for the call. This video shows one of the main disadvantages of the dual system. On a fast counter attack off a set play near the goal the refs have to sprint like crazy to get back into position. It is a little easier on an artificial turf field with the football yard marking, but still difficult even for the fastest refs.
 
To reiterate, I’m not trying to call anyone out on this. Blue does play the ball somewhere around the 6 yard box. No whistle.

They have been rearranging JV games so they can play on turf when possible.

I think many (most?) high schools have the same issue as ours. At least 9 months out of the year usage from 8am to 5pm. This field is also what the football teams practice on.
 
To reiterate, I’m not trying to call anyone out on this. Blue does play the ball somewhere around the 6 yard box. No whistle.

They have been rearranging JV games so they can play on turf when possible.

I think many (most?) high schools have the same issue as ours. At least 9 months out of the year usage from 8am to 5pm. This field is also what the football teams practice on.
That's sad. Field is garbage.
 
I won't say he was out of position, since I'm not trained in the dual system of control, but he wasn't in a good position to judge off side. That is more a fault of the dual system than it is of the referee, IMO. You have to be close to ball to see fouls, but frequently the defense and attackers are far up-field from the play.

I think it would only cost about $50 more per game to add the 3rd. That's only about $400 per season. Less than $25 per player to have 3 referees at all home games. I would guess that if a lot of schools implemented it, they would have trouble finding the referees to fill all the slots, though.
 
I think many (most?) high schools have the same issue as ours. At least 9 months out of the year usage from 8am to 5pm. This field is also what the football teams practice on.
Does the Varsity play on a better field? At my daughter's school, JV and Varsity play in the stadium. They've never played a game on grass, home or away.
 
I won't say he was out of position, since I'm not trained in the dual system of control, but he wasn't in a good position to judge off side. That is more a fault of the dual system than it is of the referee, IMO. You have to be close to ball to see fouls, but frequently the defense and attackers are far up-field from the play.

I think it would only cost about $50 more per game to add the 3rd. That's only about $400 per season. Less than $25 per player to have 3 referees at all home games. I would guess that if a lot of schools implemented it, they would have trouble finding the referees to fill all the slots, though.
It would cost $68 dollars per game more. As surfref said, even the fastest refs will struggle to get back to perfect offside determining position. Usually, the faster the ref is, the farther in they will push forward and in which just means they will be equally far out of offside determining position on the counterattack as the fat ref that doesn't push in.
 
Just making an assumption here, but I'm sure this near referee hasn't played the game and has only referee'd school/ayso games. I've been in areas of the field and in between the play the same way he was quite frequently. What I do is turn around and watch the attacker and defenders in front of me. The trailing referee will catch the fouls after. The trail referee should also have started jogging and "pinched" or gone centrally to be closer to play.

Another good tip is to read play and start running back before that play happens. I tend to run ahead of players just to get space for myself.

The two man and even one man systems are crucial for highschool due to the lack of availability of referees, especially during the afternoons. Money is an issue too, most schools can't afford 3 refs every game especially in LA!

I've done boys JV games by myself and no one had a problem with me they tend to cut you some slack when you're alone. I always smile when they say, "it's just one guy!"
 
There can still be problems with the three man system in HS. My last three 3-man games I was in the center. One game I had great ARs, one game I had a good AR and an older inexperienced AR, and one game I had a very inexperienced AR and an injured and stubborn AR. The older inexperienced AR only works AYSO and HS and has been doing it for years. Despite my thorough pregame he called offside incorrectly, could not keep up with play and signaled for a PK on minor shoulder to shoulder contact in the second minute of play. I got yelled at numerous times because of him being out of position and making incorrect signals. That third pair of ARs caused me to get yelled at numerous times and frustrated the players. In this third game I would have rather had one good partner and ran a dual system.

I have worked with far more HS refs that either do not know the latest Offside rules (HS uses rules) and interpretation or they refuse to follow the new rules. One of the refs I worked with last night flat out told me that he does not like the new Offside rules so he was not going to follow the new rules despite me telling him in my pregame to follow them. So, he would stop at the last defender and raise his flag and I had to wait for the player to either get within playing distance of the ball or interfere. This really frustrated me, coaches and players. This referee is experienced and a USSF Grade 15.
 
Back
Top