Santa Monica Surf

Soccer43 said:
So let me guess - through this merger, the SMU players have direct access to boys ECNL and GDA with LA Surf. Your players can get opportunities and called up at anytime for guesting and tournaments. The pathway to excellence and elite opportunities are now yours. Also, that great direction from LA Surf DOC and expert coaches. None of that will happen. Same promises that have been given to all the other affiliates of other clubs - LA Arsenal, LA Legends etc - if anything one or two players at best will get poached from your best team leaving behind the rest of the team for mediocrity wondering what happened to my new opportunities.
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Not even a good guess. Why would someone from Santa Monica want to drive to Pasadena to play DA when they could make the shorter trip to LAFC or Galaxy.

Let me ask you, do you think youth soccer is in the same place this year as it was three years ago? Do you think it will be in the same place three years from now?

Do you pass to where the man is? Or pass into the open space where the man is going to be?

I don't want to give you the impression that I am going to walk you through the entire thought process. I'm not. So I will reiterate that I have mixed emotions - nostalgic and giddy at the same time. And leave it at that.
 
As an SMU parent, I am sad to see the SMU brand and uniforms go away but @MWN has it right. Nothing else is really changing with an affiliate deal except SMU should get to use Surf technical infrastructure (registration tools and support) and should get additional access to Surf-related tournaments (Surf Cup, Man City Cup, etc.). I think Surf gets rebates on uniform sales and possibly a small per team or per player fee but I don't know for sure. Everything else stays the same which is a positive for me since I believe the SMU coaching directors are excellent on both the boys and girls side. In my opinion, the Surf-related tournaments have become some of the best tournaments in the U.S. and getting access to those is enough to tip the scales for me. Too often, I have seen my kids' teams not accepted to those tournaments even though far inferior Surf affiliates and teams from outside CalSouth are. At the end of the day, I am supportive of the affiliate arrangement solely for the reasons in this post as I do not believe there will be any other real tangible benefits to the arrangement. I would be pleased if I am proved wrong though.
 
toucan said:
Maybe someone can help me out with the structure of these partners and affiliates.

1. What does a partner get that an affiliate does not get?
2. Which are the partners, and which are the affiliates?
3. Do any of the partners or affiliates have their own affiliates? For example, LA Surf folded in LA Premier, which previously had affiliates like Sherman Oaks, Downtown SC and Hollywood FC, which all had adopted the LA Premier name. Now they operate under the LA Surf name. Are these affiliates of San Diego Surf, or are they "sub-affiliates" (for lack of a better word) of LA Surf.
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1. Affiliates are referred to sometimes as "partners" from a pure marketing point of view. There is no distinction. Surf has two groups. Surf Corporate clubs and Surf Affiliates.
2. The corporate clubs are Surf SD, Surf OC, and Surf LA. Presumably, players can be passed between each assuming registration is under 1 company. The Affiliates are:
3. When Surf OC and Surf LA "merged" with Surf SD, they became part of the corporate structure either as a merger of their assets into SAN DIEGUITO SURF SOCCER CLUB or as wholly owned subsidiaries. The other clubs operating under the LA Premier name were likely not affiliates (or sub-affiliates) but corporate divisions, my conclusion of which is based solely on LA Premier's last 990 reporting revenues of 1.7M.

Quick Lesson on How Clubs are structured:

A. All youth Soccer Clubs that operate under Cal South are 501(c)(3) non-profit "public benefit corporations." (although we may start seeing LLC's) These corporations will operate within a geographic region and may operate outside that region in 1 of 3 ways.

B. The first way is to simply create a regional presence by creating a division within the Corporation which markets in the new geographic region. This division is not a separate entity, rather, an internal group of managers and employees/contractors from an accounting perspective. ARSENAL FC had Arsensal FC South, which was simply a division.

C. The second way is to create a subsidiary corporation that is owned by the parent. This new corporation may be formed from the beginning as a subsidiary or as a result of a merger where the target corporation makes the acquiring corporation the sole member.

C. The third way is to create a licensing deal, where you license the name to a separate operating company, Surf refers to this as Affiliates. The license deal requires the affiliate to give a percentage of their player registration fees to Surf and pay a fee, which in turn provides branding an logistical support to the affiliate.
 
MWN said:
Its not a merger, simply SMU becoming a Surf affiliate, which gets them access to the Surf brand, registration tools and support. Nothing changes but the uniform.
.
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Not true. Their club dues will soon need to come on par with other Surf affiliations.
 
MWN said:
1. Affiliates are referred to sometimes as "partners" from a pure marketing point of view. There is no distinction. Surf has two groups. Surf Corporate clubs and Surf Affiliates.
2. The corporate clubs are Surf SD, Surf OC, and Surf LA. Presumably, players can be passed between each assuming registration is under 1 company. The Affiliates are:
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One more that converted last year:
Mission Viejo OC Surf

Not sure how many benefits those kids received or if the club made a huge turnaround.
 
Two or three years ago my kid played against an SMU team in our second game of a tourney during the transitional/confusing year for headers (headers allowed in some tourney, but not in others). During the game SMU crossed the ball into the box and our center back headed out. Ref called an intentional header and awarded SMU an indirect freekick inside the box. Our team knew header was allowed in this particular tourney since our coach read the rules and our team did so in repeatedly in our first game. Our coach discussed with the ref but the ref stood by his call.

To my surprise, the SMU coach instructed his player to simply kick the ball softly back to our team after restart. He obviously knew the ref was wrong but chose to compete fairly instead of taking advantage of such error.

I wish I remember the name of the coach so I can give him credit. Classiest act I've ever seen in youth sports.
 
Multi Sport said:
Not true. Their club dues will soon need to come on par with other Surf affiliations.
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Have you seen a Surf affiliate agreement? Not the PR, but the actual contract? Surf just makes money by selling more uniforms. There's no per player, per team, or per club licensing fee, nor is there some in-kind fee like a requirement that the affiliate send a certain amount of teams to Surf tournaments (as someone else mentioned, that's theoretically one of the benefits, although they don't promise it either). It's slightly more than just a change of uniform, since parents have to buy through soccer.com rather than their local Niky's, and they don't have design control, but a lot of clubs don't use local stores anymore.

And if the dues had to come in line with other affiliates, they would drop. West LA clubs have some of the highest dues around. They don't raise money by hosting tournaments.
 
RocketFile said:
Hey I appreciate the constructive tone, but with all do respect, you have absolutely no idea what arrangement I have with "my new boss", or what we have earned in the trade, or what has been promised.

All I know as a parent is that we have smart and strategic people determining the direction of our club and even though we are sad to lose a cool brand, we are pumped for the specific opportunities the partnership provides.
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I’m sure all the parents at SoCal Academy felt the same way when they jumped into bed with Surf to become LA Surf. They were all pumped up!! But nobody knew (least of all the SCA parents) LA Premier was going to sneak in the back door and make it a 3-way..except the powers-that-be orchestrating the whole thing. And in case you weren’t aware...the rivalry between SCA and LA Premier is HUGE!! I’ve talked to more than a few old friends who left LAPFC and moved to SCA for all the obvious reasons and none of them were happy about the merger..nor were they aware it was coming.

Just wanted you to be aware of what can be happening behind closed doors. It is a business after all. Surf wouldn’t do these deals if they were losing money. I have nothing against Surf. I’m just looking at it from an outside objective point of view. We have friends at multiple Surf locations.

But just like when SoCal jumped in with Surf..it was sad to see a very small boutique club with a proven track record get gobbled up buy the big kid on the block. Same thing happening here. Except SMU is bigger than SoCal Academy.

I really do hope it works out for you and yours.
Good luck!!
 
MWN said:
Its not a merger, simply SMU becoming a Surf affiliate, which gets them access to the Surf brand, registration tools and support. Nothing changes but the uniform.


The boss is the same. Its not a merger but a license deal. The DOC and coaches at SMU and all other affiliates for that matter are the same as they were before becoming an affiliate.
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They just now pay for the privilege of being exactly the same.
 
[QUOTE="Do you pass to where the man is? Or pass into the open space where the man is going to be?

In a congested area with limited space, you pass to the man. In this case you've chipped the ball up in the air and the biggest, strongest, fastest will gobble you up!
 
Zacrob said:
I have seen my kids' teams not accepted to those tournaments even though far inferior Surf affiliates and teams from outside CalSouth are.
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So now you get to be the inferior Surf affiliate that gets accepted? Not sure what teams get out of getting into an expensive tournament by affiliation and then getting beat by other teams.
 
This is like a "pre” affiliated deal, doesn’t go into effect until next year. What’s next futures for youth sports?

Can't say either of my kids have played santa Monica teams that I remember but I hope it works out for them.

Now back to some satire and this could apply to most of these deals.

Top 10 lists for affliation benefits, could apply to any of them:

1. You get new uniforms from soccer.com or wherever but they now cost $500+ for all the 13 required items. The small affiliated patch is a nice touch but now your teams looks like all the other affiliates

2. Your independent club now gets to be part of something bigger & competes with the 17 other affiliated clubs for spots in one those higher level leagues that are run out of some geographic area thats out of your way.

3. Your club gets to switch leagues, the parent company doesn't play or support XYZ so you switch to XXXX or whatever. On the other hand you may get into a league that was closed to independent clubs prior.

4. Lawyers and Law firms get more business, make more $$ to draw up, execute the paperwork, etc.

5. Your team now get preferred admission to the clubs tournaments, Instead for being in the 3rd flight for xyx cup the new affiliation will get them into the 2nd flight or the best of the best flight if there not too many other xyz teams looking to do the same?

6. Your fees increase to pay for the privilege of being part of the "family", somebody has to make some money on this deal and its going to cost you but the parent company and existing club management are going to make some more $$ somehow or why would they bother?

7. Parent company includes your in the “family” BBQ, casino night, or other fundraisers so guess what you can contribute more $$.

8. Parent company teams invites the affiliated teams and/or players for a token training or scrimmage games so you still remember that your not alone & who the boss is.

9. You get to blast everything on Social Media now on the parent pages with a bunch more followers. Yeah more likes and thumbs up.

10. In the end nothing really changes; same clowns same circus but with a new catchy fresh title.
 
pewpew said:
I’m sure all the parents at SoCal Academy felt the same way when they jumped into bed with Surf to become LA Surf. They were all pumped up!! But nobody knew (least of all the SCA parents) LA Premier was going to sneak in the back door and make it a 3-way..except the powers-that-be orchestrating the whole thing. And in case you weren’t aware...the rivalry between SCA and LA Premier is HUGE!! I’ve talked to more than a few old friends who left LAPFC and moved to SCA for all the obvious reasons and none of them were happy about the merger..nor were they aware it was coming.

Just wanted you to be aware of what can be happening behind closed doors. It is a business after all. Surf wouldn’t do these deals if they were losing money. I have nothing against Surf. I’m just looking at it from an outside objective point of view. We have friends at multiple Surf locations.

But just like when SoCal jumped in with Surf..it was sad to see a very small boutique club with a proven track record get gobbled up buy the big kid on the block. Same thing happening here. Except SMU is bigger than SoCal Academy.

I really do hope it works out for you and yours.
Good luck!!
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@pewpew I appreciate your point of view. However I think the circumstances differ here. Santa Monica United is probably the 3rd or 4th biggest club in CSL. Over the past 5 years Santa Monica United has place more kids in college soccer than all the other west LA clubs combined. They have teams that regularly play in Europe for the summer and they have done the best job at placing kids in the some of the top academic D3 soccer programs in the nation. Years ago SMU had nothing on the girls side but now they have a large and successful girls side and it is typical for their good players to get offers from multiple colleges even though they are not DA or ECNL. So yes you could argue why change when its clearly working for the families in the area... I imagine this affiliation was done to help sustain access to the best tournaments in SoCal for their best teams. For example the SMU '05's recently defeated a local '05 ECNL team. If you want to go play soccer at an academic D3 or an Ivy League college then this is a great club for placement. That will not change. Same coaches and same DOC's serving the same community, but with better access.
 
This happens every time a smaller club affiliates/partners/spawns/integrates/merges/acquires/melds/assimilates/unites/unifies/converges/blends with a larger club.
All of us outsiders wonder "Why in the heck would they do that? They had a decent thing going as a boutique club."

And the typical response from the club(s) is "better resources and branding. Exposure to top teams. Economies of scale."

I'd love to see some metrics from small clubs that have done this and see what has changed in the 24 months post assimilation:
Did you get more players? Quality players? Did you increase revenue? Decrease cost? Have your teams become more competitive? More exposure for older players to get seen by college/pro scouts? What does your customer (players and parents) think about the move? If your club hosts a tournament, is it better attended? Does the city/county/school district give you better access to fields? Do you get treated better by Cal-South/Coast Soccer League/SCDSL/etc? Has your time spent on administrative tasks been reduced? Has whatever the Big Club told you was going to happen, happened?
 
soccerobserver said:
@pewpew I appreciate your point of view. However I think the circumstances differ here. Santa Monica United is probably the 3rd or 4th biggest club in CSL. Over the past 5 years Santa Monica United has place more kids in college soccer than all the other west LA clubs combined. They have teams that regularly play in Europe for the summer and they have done the best job at placing kids in the some of the top academic D3 soccer programs in the nation. Years ago SMU had nothing on the girls side but now they have a large and successful girls side and it is typical for their good players to get offers from multiple colleges even though they are not DA or ECNL. So yes you could argue why change when its clearly working for the families in the area... I imagine this affiliation was done to help sustain access to the best tournaments in SoCal for their best teams. For example the SMU '05's recently defeated a local '05 ECNL team. If you want to go play soccer at an academic D3 or an Ivy League college then this is a great club for placement. That will not change. Same coaches and same DOC's serving the same community, but with better access.
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Everything you just said contradicts a need to join Surf. Except access to the best tournaments in SoCal. And let’s be honest. You’re going to sit there and tell me you were denied entry into any of the Surf tournaments? Or Blues Cup. Or West Coast. Or any of the other showcases or big tournaments? Because an any given weekend during the summer there are no less than half a dozen tournaments being played throughout the area. Sometimes there are in excess of 10 tournaments locally from San Diego to the Ventura Co line. Most are average but the bigger tournaments are out there and everybody knows when/where those tournaments and showcases are held.
And you’re going to say that SMU is good at placing players in D3 or Ivy schools only? If a player is good they’re going to get noticed regardless of where they play. It might take a little bit more work. But totally possible. But wouldn’t trying to get those stronger SMU teams into CRL or something along those lines vs changing jerseys be a better route? Getting SMU into ECNL or DA would probably be a tough uphill battle. But again I don’t see how changing jerseys and a name is going to make all the difference.
Just my .02
 
pewpew said:
Everything you just said contradicts a need to join Surf. Except access to the best tournaments in SoCal. And let’s be honest. You’re going to sit there and tell me you were denied entry into any of the Surf tournaments? Or Blues Cup. Or West Coast. Or any of the other showcases or big tournaments? Because an any given weekend during the summer there are no less than half a dozen tournaments being played throughout the area. Sometimes there are in excess of 10 tournaments locally from San Diego to the Ventura Co line. Most are average but the bigger tournaments are out there and everybody knows when/where those tournaments and showcases are held.
And you’re going to say that SMU is good at placing players in D3 or Ivy schools only? If a player is good they’re going to get noticed regardless of where they play. It might take a little bit more work. But totally possible. But wouldn’t trying to get those stronger SMU teams into CRL or something along those lines vs changing jerseys be a better route? Getting SMU into ECNL or DA would probably be a tough uphill battle. But again I don’t see how changing jerseys and a name is going to make all the difference.
Just my .02
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@pewpew I am keeping it 100% real and we think alike...the SMU 01's were Finalists in CRL last season...and with regard to DA and ECNL I think that amount of travel and training is overkill for what the majority of families in the community want...However, I do not speak for SMU as I am just an observer...
 
timbuck said:
This happens every time a smaller club affiliates/partners/spawns/integrates/merges/acquires/melds/assimilates/unites/unifies/converges/blends with a larger club.
All of us outsiders wonder "Why in the heck would they do that? They had a decent thing going as a boutique club."

And the typical response from the club(s) is "better resources and branding. Exposure to top teams. Economies of scale."

I'd love to see some metrics from small clubs that have done this and see what has changed in the 24 months post assimilation:
Did you get more players? Quality players? Did you increase revenue? Decrease cost? Have your teams become more competitive? More exposure for older players to get seen by college/pro scouts? What does your customer (players and parents) think about the move? If your club hosts a tournament, is it better attended? Does the city/county/school district give you better access to fields? Do you get treated better by Cal-South/Coast Soccer League/SCDSL/etc? Has your time spent on administrative tasks been reduced? Has whatever the Big Club told you was going to happen, happened?
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If you look at the Surf Affiliate site (http://affiliates.surfsoccer.com/) promoting the reasons to become a Surf Affiliate, they hold up Surf Hawaii as a poster child ... over a 3 year period:

925% Increase in Total Team (4 to 40)
800% Increase in Total Players
988% Increase in Revenue

The biggest selling point is the brand. "Surf" and the "Surf Cup" are national brands "Downey FC" or "Santa Monica United" or whatever else the club name ... not so much. Many don't know that Murrieta Surf is not the same as SD Surf, just look at the responses in this thread of all the people that are supposed to be knowledgeable that have no idea what the difference between an affiliate v. corporate regional operator is. Its confusing and the affiliates benefit by this fact.

This brand has value, especially for clubs looking for a competitive advantage in an already crowded market. How important is a brand in the eyes of a consumer, just ask yourself how many times you went through a drive through and when asked what your drink preference was you answered "Coke" or "Dr. Pepper" or "Sprite" instead of "RC Cola" or "Mr. Pibb" or "Sierra Mist."
 
pewpew said:
I’m sure all the parents at SoCal Academy felt the same way when they jumped into bed with Surf to become LA Surf. They were all pumped up!! But nobody knew (least of all the SCA parents) LA Premier was going to sneak in the back door and make it a 3-way..except the powers-that-be orchestrating the whole thing. And in case you weren’t aware...the rivalry between SCA and LA Premier is HUGE!! I’ve talked to more than a few old friends who left LAPFC and moved to SCA for all the obvious reasons and none of them were happy about the merger..nor were they aware it was coming.

Just wanted you to be aware of what can be happening behind closed doors. It is a business after all. Surf wouldn’t do these deals if they were losing money. I have nothing against Surf. I’m just looking at it from an outside objective point of view. We have friends at multiple Surf locations.

But just like when SoCal jumped in with Surf..it was sad to see a very small boutique club with a proven track record get gobbled up buy the big kid on the block. Same thing happening here. Except SMU is bigger than SoCal Academy.

I really do hope it works out for you and yours.
Good luck!!
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Yep...
 
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