True, but unnecessary collisions are not. That's what the refs are talking about here. Personally, I haven't seen any issues with the rule change. Most refs are using common sense and blowing the whistle when appropriate whether the player has touched the ball or are clearly going to touch the ball. I think "interfering with play" can be used judiciously.
National Cup
- Thread starter Lulu
- Start date
True, but unnecessary collisions are not. That's what the refs are talking about here. Personally, I haven't seen any issues with the rule change. Most refs are using common sense and blowing the whistle when appropriate whether the player has touched the ball or are clearly going to touch the ball. I think "interfering with play" can be used judiciously.
That shouldn't be happening, (unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible) because that would be in violation of IFAB guidance which states:
"If an opponent becomes involved in the play and if, in the opinion of the referee, there is potential for physical contact, the player in the offside position shall be penalised for interfering with an opponent."
outside!
DA
Maybe it is due to the refs getting used to the new interpretation, but I have seen two close calls this season that in the past would have been whistled with the offensive player 20 yards from the keeper.
Surfref
PREMIER
I have had several instances of players stopping or changing direction away from the ball when they are between 5-10 yards away and one of their teammates who was onside seemingly comes out of nowhere to get the ball and continue the attack or shoot. As soon as that initial player either stops or changes direction away from the ball there is no offside violation. So, unfortunately referees have to wait a lot longer before blowing the whistle for offside. Of course the skill level and age of the players needs to be taken into consideration. A 16 year old DA or ECNL should know to stop her run after the ball once a teammate or coach yells "offside" so I am going to wait until that player is at least 5 yards from the ball before making the call. A 16 year old low skill level Tier 3/Bronze/AA-B player will get a whistle much earlier because they would normally not have the soccer knowledge to know to stop. My daughter and her teammates have a couple plays that involve an attacker being in an offside position. The offside player runs after the ball but stops when they get about 10 yards away, the defense usually stops thinking offside is going to be called and an attacking teammate comes in from onside and continues the attack.
That is a text book definition of offside according to IFAB:
"A player in an offside position shall also be penalised if he:
• makes an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
• ‘impact’ applies to an opponent’s ability (or potential) to play the ball and will include situations where an opponent’s movement to play the ball is delayed, hindered or prevented by the offside player."
Obvious action (offside player runs after the ball) + opponent delayed (defense stops) = offside
coachrefparent
GOLD
If I'm reading what you posted correctly ("defense stops"=an impact by player in offside position), I disagree. The mental decision by the defender to stop (and lamely put up his hand and stare at the AR, and then his teammates, and then his coach as the other team scores) is not what is meant by "opponent is delayed". The defender must be prevented from playing the ball by the player in an offside position.
No question that there are two manners in which fouls are called either on a subjective interpretation or an objective application of the LOTG.
It's not just the defense stopping but the player in the offside position chasing the ball which draws the defense towards the offside player and away from the player who shoots the ball which is clear interference by the player in the offside position. That being said, a player should never stop before the whistle blows and should never assume a ref will blow a whistle even if its a foul. The fault goes to the defense for stopping not to the ref for not calling a foul. Its well within the ref's discretion not to call a foul.
Surfref
PREMIER
You are incorrect and I am not sure what old version of the Laws of the Game you are referencing, but it is not the current LOTG. I copied and pasted the text below right off of the IFAB website. Just because a player runs after a ball that is not within playing distance of them does not mean they have impacted, interfered or delayed the opponents ability to play the ball. The issue you raise was true several years ago but the LOTG have been modified several times since then and this topic is discussed at all trainings on Offside. Just because a player is running after the ball does not make it "an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball."
2017-2018 LOTG Law 11
2. Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
•• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
••challenging an opponent for the ball or
•• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
•• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball or
• gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
•• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent
••been deliberately saved by any opponent
A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).
In situations where:
• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent’s progress (e.g. blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12.
• a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence.
• an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge.
Surfref
PREMIER
Offside is not a foul but a violation of the Laws of the Game, Law 11. Fouls are covered in Law 12. Since you will not believe anything a couple of highly trained referees tell you, you need to contact George or Randy. They will set you straight.
George Noujaim
Chairman, State Referee Administrator
gnoujaim@calsouth.com
951.505.8348 - ph.
Randall Reyes
State Director of Instruction
lawfive01@yahoo.com
623.363.7374 - ph.
I used the following:
• makes an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball - Verbatim from the 2017-2018 LOTG (also used in IFAB circular noted below)
• ‘impact’ applies to an opponent’s ability (or potential) to play the ball and will include situations where an opponent’s movement to play the ball is delayed, hindered or prevented by the offside player." - Verbatim from the IFAB Circular from 2015. Maybe there is some published authority that has since changed the IFAB's definition of "impact", but the guidance it is defining is still in the current LOTG.
I sent the question to someone on a National level, I will post the response when I receive it. Fair enough?
Surfref
PREMIER
While you wait for an answer, you might benefit from the videos on the Pro Referee (US Soccer and MLS Pro Referee website).
http://proreferees.com/2017/04/05/play-of-the-week-2017-week-5/ (Offside – Interfering with an Opponent dialogue)
http://proreferees.com/features/education/ (Main site that lists all weekly training)
Surfref
PREMIER
How many times have we had to sit through referee training and hear another referee ask, "Isn't it interfering if the offside player runs after the ball and the defender runs to catch the offside player even if the offside player does not play the ball?" Only to have one of many instructors spend 5 minutes explaining why it is not interfering and a violation of Law 11 just to be in an offside position and run after the ball but stop or not play it and have a teammate play it. It happens every time we have Offside training sometimes twice in one training session.
When I saw the first video, my initial impression was that it was interference. Looking at it closer though the shot had already been taken and the goalie had already committed before the offside attacker enters into a closer field of vision and then drops down. So I don't think the offside player hindered or influenced (I know that's not a technical term) the goalie's actions, so no offside, but that is with the benefit of slow mo. I wouldn't fault a referee with either call because its a bang bang play, but technically its no offside. So credit to the ref in this case.
To me the 2nd video is clearly not offside, I don't see anything close that could be deemed interference.
GunninGopher
SILVER ELITE
Here is AYSO's referee newsletter that was sent out today. The topic is offside:
https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?u=d7f863552213883464a553f0e&id=a32c3878b2&e=51f9e42f51
https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?u=d7f863552213883464a553f0e&id=a32c3878b2&e=51f9e42f51
coachrefparent
GOLD
It's up to the defender to decide what to do. If he wrongly chases a player who was in an offside position when his teammate played the ball (OPWTPB), that is his own risk. He should have gone to the player who will not be called offside (and shoots in your example).
A player that is in OPWTPB that "draws the defense" is not "clear interference" as you assert. Just a mental error by the defense. No offside. This has nothing to do with discretion, as it would be an abuse of the official's discretion to call an offside offense when none exists.
As promised, here is the response from a national ref trainer. I was WRONG! Pretty much verbatim what verbatim what Surfref said (I probably owe a few of you lunch). I fully understand that offside position is not offside but I obviously read more into "intefere" and "active in play" than was there.
"No. It is a tactic and would be acceptable. Any defending team which “bought” this would have to have their minds stuck in the muck of the bad old (long ago old) days when officials signaled for offside based solely on the position. For more than the last 14 years (since 2005), referee training has emphasized (a) that an offside offense has not occurred unless and until the player touches the ball or interferes with an opponent (“interfere” does not include “confuse”) and (b) that when two attackers are running for the ball, one from an onside position and one from an offside position, the referee must wait to see which player gets to the ball first."
"No. It is a tactic and would be acceptable. Any defending team which “bought” this would have to have their minds stuck in the muck of the bad old (long ago old) days when officials signaled for offside based solely on the position. For more than the last 14 years (since 2005), referee training has emphasized (a) that an offside offense has not occurred unless and until the player touches the ball or interferes with an opponent (“interfere” does not include “confuse”) and (b) that when two attackers are running for the ball, one from an onside position and one from an offside position, the referee must wait to see which player gets to the ball first."