I'm a little unclear how commitments work at Division III schools. Let's say your kid ends up receiving offers from one or more Div. III schools to play but she also has one or more dream colleges for which she would be willing to either give up soccer or try the walk-on route in order to attend. Are Div. III coaches typically willing to hold offers open until all admissions results are received?
Division III vs Non-Soccer Dream School (Timing)
- Thread starter SocalPapa
- Start date
CaliKlines
Well-Known Member
Offers of what? D3's do not give out athletic scholarships. If she has an opportunity to attend her dream school, then why even consider playing soccer? Just my opinion, if she can get into her dream school and be really jazzed about it, then she should do well, and be better prepared for life post-graduation.
Good luck to you and your daughter.
Good luck to you and your daughter.
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Offer of a roster spot. And that's my question: do players typically know what their actual opportunities are before they will be expected to commit? I've heard several Div. III players talk about applying early action to confirm admission as part of the process but don't know if that means the commitment process ends at that point.
Does the coach have a limit of the number of roster spots he can offer? Perhaps there is a limit to the number he can invite to the summer pre-season/pre-semester training?
My daughter is still a couple years away from picking a college, so I don't have a specific situation in mind. I'm just trying to anticipate all the potential paths/decisions to be made and she seems more interested in Div. III than I or II. I've heard players say you are not officially on the team until tryouts your freshman year. But I also have friends who have said their daughters "committed" to Div. III schools early in their senior year. So I guess I'm really asking what exactly the sequence of things. The same question would apply if trying to choose between two Div. III schools for which admission is not certain.
D 3 is less formal. There are no letters of intent. It is usually an offer of a roster spot, and if a coach is offering a spot, there is a dialog about what the students timing is, what other schools they may be considering, GPA, early acceptance, etc. If the coach of dream school is offering, then the "commitment" is just that...a simple verbal agreement so the coach can plan his recruiting class. If there is no dialog with dream school, start one...find out the coaches timing. If he doesn't think your player is a fit, discuss playing on the club team and possibly making the team the next year.
Try to gauge how much the coach thinks your kids style of play fits in and how they feel about red shirting. Ask how many are being recruited for your players class year. Some kids commit and once they get to school and start the training the coach redshirts them, transfers come in and bump kids out, or worse coach doesn't red shirt them but they get 0 to very little minutes for the season. This can happen at any school and at any time but its best to be aware and see where your player fits in and will play if that's what's important to them. If they are already coming in and are at the bottom of the list it will be harder to move up and might get passed over. If their major is priority find a school where their major is offered and start weeding from there.
soccerobserver
GOLD
Socal Pops, this is a great question and I have seen many families wrestle with this issue. For perspective, Div III schools make their offers near the end of the recruit's junior year in HS-- April/May of junior year. The "middle" prospects receive their offers later -- after the top prospects have turned down the coach. All of the Div. III coaches I spoke with wanted to have their recruiting class completed by end of summer after junior year. However, some Div III's can be super picky. For example, WashU is a fairly dominant wsoccer school in DIII (defending national champs) and they can take their sweet time and be really picky.
Let's say its June of Junior year. Coaches make your player offers. Coaches will not be happy if the kid takes their time "shopping " the offer etc. There will be pressure/indignation to commit. Once the player verbally commits to a coach, then the student/player will apply early decision in November of Senior year and is expected to accept the official, formal offer of admission when it arrives in December of Senior year.
However, a creative chess move/work around might be possible. Player can apply "Early Decision I" by November 1 to her first choice school. If she does not get in to her first choice then she would apply "Early Decision II" by January 1 to her second choice Div III school. Player can inform the coach of her second choice school of her plan to apply to them second even though she has an offer from them. Hope for the best. If your player is superior to what is on the DIII roster, then coach might be more open minded. Please note, not all schools have "Early Decision II" options.
But consider this: college rosters are gargantuan...30 kids, not 15-18 like in club... Playing time is no joke. If player "walks on" the coach has ZERO obligation to play him/her, unlike the "recruited" players who coach promised the moon to.
In conclusion may I suggest pursuing the Div. III offers so you have options...but by the time the offers roll in the choice will need to be made to play soccer or to go for the "dream academic school" w/out soccer. I am not able to envision a scenario where the player can aim for both unless your player would be vastly superior to what the Div. III coach has on their roster Please feel free to send message if you want more specifics. Congratulations to you and your player for looking ahead.
soccerobserver
GOLD
Yes the kids are not officially on the roster until after "try-outs". However, I have only heard of kids not making it through the try outs if they show up suddenly obese...way out of shape etc...
Those 2 are a given. I'm scratching my head about several kids that we know and they have 0 minutes. Athletes, not obese and not out of shape and from what I remember they were pretty good players. Being on the roster means nada.
That's exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to respond in such helpful detail @soccerobserver.
soccerobserver
GOLD
LBS, you make a good point and that is exactly why I was trying to mention the risk of being a "walk on". It can be tough enough as an actual recruit. SoCal Pop's kid is blessed to have a parent thinking three moves ahead. Heck, I don't think Barry Sanders* started until his last year of college??
* Sanders set highs for: most rushing yards in a single-season (2,628), most touchdowns in a single season (39), most all-purpose yards (3,250) and most rushing yards per game (238.9; no other individual has even broken 200) on his way to the Heisman Trophy.
HouseofCards
BRONZE
Not all this information is entirely true. While D3's don't participate in the Letter of Intent program that D1 and D2 schools do (binding agreements), D3 schools do have a "Celebratory Letter" for students to sign. This is a non-binding letter, but it can only be given and signed upon acceptance and enrollment deposit/housing agreement/etc., and serves to allow prospective student athletes at D3 schools to participate in signing day activities at their high schools.
It is true that the recruiting process tends to be later at the D3 level than at the other levels, primarily because of financial aid. While D1 and D2 financial aid is often tied to soccer, at D3 financial aid is often tied to FAFSA which means it is not until much later in the process that families can get a true sense of the financial aid package. This process is moved forward a couple of months now that FAFSA can be completed in October and the use of prior, prior year taxes for FAFSA.
When it comes to the soccer side, I would argue that D3 coaches are very similar to their D1 and D2 counterparts in that they want to win. Playing time is no joke at any level and coaches have ZERO obligation to play any player, walk-on or full-ride! In my experience, coaches will play the players that give them the best chance to win games, whether that is a walk-on or a full-ride scholarship player. Coaches will have probably seen the full-ride play a lot more through the recruiting process and therefore might trust that player more right off the bat than a walk-on, but at the end of the day, coaches have to win or they get fired, especially at the D1 level, so the notion that a walk-on that can help more than a scholarship player won't play as much is ridiculous, it just might take the coach some time to figure it out.
It is true that the recruiting process tends to be later at the D3 level than at the other levels, primarily because of financial aid. While D1 and D2 financial aid is often tied to soccer, at D3 financial aid is often tied to FAFSA which means it is not until much later in the process that families can get a true sense of the financial aid package. This process is moved forward a couple of months now that FAFSA can be completed in October and the use of prior, prior year taxes for FAFSA.
When it comes to the soccer side, I would argue that D3 coaches are very similar to their D1 and D2 counterparts in that they want to win. Playing time is no joke at any level and coaches have ZERO obligation to play any player, walk-on or full-ride! In my experience, coaches will play the players that give them the best chance to win games, whether that is a walk-on or a full-ride scholarship player. Coaches will have probably seen the full-ride play a lot more through the recruiting process and therefore might trust that player more right off the bat than a walk-on, but at the end of the day, coaches have to win or they get fired, especially at the D1 level, so the notion that a walk-on that can help more than a scholarship player won't play as much is ridiculous, it just might take the coach some time to figure it out.
soccerobserver
GOLD
HoC, in the spirit of being helpful, I think some things need to be clarified. Regarding financial aid, parents can use each college's "net price calculator" to see what, if any, financial aid they might receive and to estimate how much the family will have to contribute for tuition, room and board. The "net price calculator" can be found on colleges' own websites and can be run at anytime since the D3 award is not tied to soccer. Also, the financial aid package, if any, will be sent out in conjunction with the early acceptance letter in December of Senior year in high school.
Regarding the option of applying and then trying to be a walk on, I stand by the points I made. It is an adittional risk to go in as a walk on. If the player is lights out awesome, maybe in a year the coach will figure it out. If the player is only marginally better, or actually worse than what is on the roster, then there might not be any playing time. It is a risk that must be added to the equation when deciding which option to choose. Most coaches I know recruit the 7-9 best players available to them. If a walk on has been seen and not recruited, then by definition the walk on would start at the bottom of the pre-season totem pole.
Regarding the option of applying and then trying to be a walk on, I stand by the points I made. It is an adittional risk to go in as a walk on. If the player is lights out awesome, maybe in a year the coach will figure it out. If the player is only marginally better, or actually worse than what is on the roster, then there might not be any playing time. It is a risk that must be added to the equation when deciding which option to choose. Most coaches I know recruit the 7-9 best players available to them. If a walk on has been seen and not recruited, then by definition the walk on would start at the bottom of the pre-season totem pole.
soccerobserver
GOLD
Big congratulations to the Whittier College Poets of Socal!
From the Whittier website:
"CLAREMONT, Calif. – For the second time in program history, the Whittier College Women's Soccer team has qualified for the NCAA Division III National Championships as they upset No. 2 Pomona-Pitzer 1-0 during the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (SCIAC) Post Season Tournament Final.
The Purple & Gold entered the tournament as the No. 4 seed and came out on top upsetting the No. 1 seeded and nationally Ranked (No. 20) Regals of Cal Lutheran University Thursday night, the biggest upset win in program history before topping the No. 2 ranked Sagehens of Pomona-Pitzer.
With the win, Whittier improves to 12-8 overall and earns the SCIAC's automatic qualifier to the 2017 NCAA Division III National Championships, which is the first time since 2003. The Poets await their draw which will be announced early this week."
http://www.wcpoets.com/sports/wsoc/2017-18/releases/201711052vmy66
From the Whittier website:
"CLAREMONT, Calif. – For the second time in program history, the Whittier College Women's Soccer team has qualified for the NCAA Division III National Championships as they upset No. 2 Pomona-Pitzer 1-0 during the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (SCIAC) Post Season Tournament Final.
The Purple & Gold entered the tournament as the No. 4 seed and came out on top upsetting the No. 1 seeded and nationally Ranked (No. 20) Regals of Cal Lutheran University Thursday night, the biggest upset win in program history before topping the No. 2 ranked Sagehens of Pomona-Pitzer.
With the win, Whittier improves to 12-8 overall and earns the SCIAC's automatic qualifier to the 2017 NCAA Division III National Championships, which is the first time since 2003. The Poets await their draw which will be announced early this week."
http://www.wcpoets.com/sports/wsoc/2017-18/releases/201711052vmy66
jojosoccer
SILVER ELITE
So Cal D3 schools seem to be a competitive region.
Congrats to Whittier College!
Congrats to Whittier College!
Dos Equis
GOLD
Cal Lutheran will get a shot to prove that Socal D3 colleges can compete with the top teams at Williams next weekend. Good luck -- bring your long underwear and rain gear.
soccerobserver
GOLD
I was at the Whittier vs Pacific Lutheran NCAA D3 tournament opening round with family friends. I was impressed with the level of soccer played. No kickball, great athleticism and possession based soccer. At times it was very elegant to watch. I also thought the soccer was at a higher level than what I have seen at many east coast based D3 schools. The Whittier/Pacific Lutheran game was an indication of some serious talent out here the the west coast. My friends said Pomona-Pitzer was even better than Pacific Lutheran who I thought played great soccer.
I am wondering if SoCal D3 schools might be getting the fuzzy end of the lolipop with the low number of placements in the NCAA D3 tournament. For example the NESCAC sent 5 teams (Williams, Tufts, Conn Col, Hamilton and Middlebury) the UAA sent 4 teams (Brandeis, Carnegie Mellon, Uof Chicago and WashU) and the Centennial Conference sent 3 teams (Hopkins, Swarthmore and McDaniel). The SCIAC sent 2 ( Whittier and Cal Lutheran) when maybe they should have 4 slots based on the quality of soccer I saw. I hope Cal Lutheran can advance deep and represent California well.
Dos Equis
GOLD
D3 on the West Coast receives less respect than on the east coast, but the NESCAC gets far too much respect based on history, not on the current state of competition. The UAA is a good conference, and in any given year could have 5-6 schools in the top 25, but this was not that year. More CA colleges should have been invited, but travel/bracket logistics may also be an obstacle.
If Cal Lutheran can beat Williams Saturday, a college that has won it all recently, that would go a long way to gaining additional respect.