CSL - Intel On Next Year's Divisions/Levels

Tim Powell

SILVER ELITE
Since many folks on here appear to run in or near the "upper flights" of CSL, I was wondering if anyone had intel from someone at CSL (or previous experience with older kids) on how CSL approaches this every year. It seems to me that, since everyone starts at Bronze and works their way up, that promotions seem to be a little more generous as they fill things out up to Premier. Only once everything is filled out all the way up do they apply more of a "stricter" promotion/relegation thing (but I could be wrong).

Some questions in my head:

- Do they have a similar approach every year for birth years? For instance, I think last year G2008 had a single Silver Elite division with 6 teams. Would that be the protocol for 2009 this year? I know someone on here wondered if they would take the top 4 from last year's Silver North & South...but that would exceed 6.

- Does it vary each year based on total number of teams? (as discussed on here, 2009 is considered a "down year" in terms of kids/teams). Does it vary on, out of those teams, how many apply for the highest divisions - i.e. if there are enough teams even those who are on the border who want to sign up for it, do they take that into consideration and widen the net in terms of a Silver Elite bracket? Kind of a "be careful what you ask for" thing?

- On that thinking, if yes & they tend to promote more if folks are requesting promotion, is it possible they actually have both a North and a South Silver Elite bracket each with 6 teams and do a wider promotion provided teams are asking for placement there?

- What do they look at beyond last year's league performance? Do they look at YSL? Spring leagues? Tournament performance in Spring/Summer?
 
Since many folks on here appear to run in or near the "upper flights" of CSL, I was wondering if anyone had intel from someone at CSL (or previous experience with older kids) on how CSL approaches this every year. It seems to me that, since everyone starts at Bronze and works their way up, that promotions seem to be a little more generous as they fill things out up to Premier. Only once everything is filled out all the way up do they apply more of a "stricter" promotion/relegation thing (but I could be wrong).

Some questions in my head:

- Do they have a similar approach every year for birth years? For instance, I think last year G2008 had a single Silver Elite division with 6 teams. Would that be the protocol for 2009 this year? I know someone on here wondered if they would take the top 4 from last year's Silver North & South...but that would exceed 6.

- Does it vary each year based on total number of teams? (as discussed on here, 2009 is considered a "down year" in terms of kids/teams). Does it vary on, out of those teams, how many apply for the highest divisions - i.e. if there are enough teams even those who are on the border who want to sign up for it, do they take that into consideration and widen the net in terms of a Silver Elite bracket? Kind of a "be careful what you ask for" thing?

- On that thinking, if yes & they tend to promote more if folks are requesting promotion, is it possible they actually have both a North and a South Silver Elite bracket each with 6 teams and do a wider promotion provided teams are asking for placement there?

- What do they look at beyond last year's league performance? Do they look at YSL? Spring leagues? Tournament performance in Spring/Summer?

I highly doubt they make 2 se division for g2009 this year usually alot of people don't want to take the jump up in competition. They would rather win at silver than struggle at se knowing they can lose kids if they have a down year. Ex alot of parents just want to be on a winning team. I think ideally they want 8 teams in a division like se but some time there isnt enough teams to promote.

They take into consideration your performance in tourneys and against similar level competition. We (avsc) did not go the bronze route and went straight to silver. Our coach petitioned to play up and justified it with our games we had played. They agreed and put us up in our first year at club level. This year we finished 4th place but will petition to go to se if they only decide to take 3. For us we split games with all the teams that finished above us and made a good run (semifinals) league cup only losing by 1 goal in semis. And have had a good showing against some quality teams in state and some early tourneys this year.

I expect they will take 8 as long as there is 8 that want and deserve to be in se
 
Since many folks on here appear to run in or near the "upper flights" of CSL, I was wondering if anyone had intel from someone at CSL (or previous experience with older kids) on how CSL approaches this every year. It seems to me that, since everyone starts at Bronze and works their way up, that promotions seem to be a little more generous as they fill things out up to Premier. Only once everything is filled out all the way up do they apply more of a "stricter" promotion/relegation thing (but I could be wrong).

Some questions in my head:

- Do they have a similar approach every year for birth years? For instance, I think last year G2008 had a single Silver Elite division with 6 teams. Would that be the protocol for 2009 this year? I know someone on here wondered if they would take the top 4 from last year's Silver North & South...but that would exceed 6.

- Does it vary each year based on total number of teams? (as discussed on here, 2009 is considered a "down year" in terms of kids/teams). Does it vary on, out of those teams, how many apply for the highest divisions - i.e. if there are enough teams even those who are on the border who want to sign up for it, do they take that into consideration and widen the net in terms of a Silver Elite bracket? Kind of a "be careful what you ask for" thing?

- On that thinking, if yes & they tend to promote more if folks are requesting promotion, is it possible they actually have both a North and a South Silver Elite bracket each with 6 teams and do a wider promotion provided teams are asking for placement there?

- What do they look at beyond last year's league performance? Do they look at YSL? Spring leagues? Tournament performance in Spring/Summer?
Well, I don't speak as an insider to CSL, but I've seen the process play out for many years. The CSL of 10 years ago is not the same as it is today. 10 years ago, there was no SCDSL, there were a lot of CSL teams. The U-11s and U-12s (before the change to the calendar-year system) would have 100 teams in the age group. You would generally see one Gold bracket at U12, one or two Silver-Elite, maybe 3 Silvers, and maybe about 8 bronze brackets.

Because there were so many more teams, CSL could afford to be rigid in the way they handled promotions and relegations. In the overwhelming majority of cases, it was two teams from every bracket getting promoted, and two teams getting sent down. Appeals were seemingly ignored. (Or at least it seemed that way to me.)

Some of that has changed since the advent of the SCDSL, and then there were additional changes after the age-bracketing switched to calendar years. Because the SCDSL allows self-bracketing, it has pushed CSL to be more generous in allowing teams to request promotion. Since the age-bracketing change, many teams have seemingly sought to avoid promotion, for reasons I do not understand. Thus, it easier for CSL to accomodate teams who seek promotion, even when they are not in the top-two of their bracket.

Last year, as the OP said, there was only one Silver Elite bracket in the G2008s, and there were only 6 teams in that group. I view this as a hangover from the change in age groups. My best guess is that there just weren't a lot of teams who wanted to play in a Silver Elite bracket. If any good team had asked, I'm 100% sure that CSL would have let them into the bracket, if only to fill it up. And consistent with my theory that CSL is more lenient now than before, I don't think they will promote anybody unless they request it.

As far as the G2009s are concerned, I doubt that there will be a Gold level, because I doubt that there will be enough teams requesting that level. I would guess that there will be one Silver Elite level, and probably 3 Silver brackets. I base this guess on recent CSL history, and what I generally know about the various teams that might seek promotion.

Now, as far as the OP's team is concerned, they went 2-7-3 in Silver North. If you combine both SN with SS, they would have placed 11th of 14. If I am correct, then there will be one Silver Elite bracket of 8 teams. That means the OP's team would have to jump three. Some of those teams will probably not want to be promoted. And there might be a team or two that has broken up. I put the odds of the OP's team getting the promotion at about 35%.
 
Well ole left to scdsl so I think that helps you out a bit . I hear bysc is contemplating accepting the promotion as well.
 
Well ole left to scdsl so I think that helps you out a bit . I hear bysc is contemplating accepting the promotion as well.
We'll see. The Ole move would put us to "4" in North, but the way toucan laid it out, they may not balance between the 2 Silvers and grab more from the South if there are better records. Helps a bit when you don't have the Eagles hahaha.

It is what it is. We had a mixed bag. Played Eagles tough once 1-3 and then got thumped the next time. Split with Ole. Drew Aztecs and lost the other by 1. Within 1-2 goals of SB in our 3 meetings last year in CSL and tournaments. Had a loss & draws in there where we should have played better. We also didn't fair well in League or State Cup. This Spring coming off a good run where we drew Team USA and had a nice playoff run in the SoCal Elite Spring League.

We have it in us to compete - just hasn't always come out. Just have to wait and see, and continue to put best foot forward.

Great insights, all. Keep them coming.
 
Well ole left to scdsl so I think that helps you out a bit . I hear bysc is contemplating accepting the promotion as well.

And they are not the only one ;)

The amount of driving required for this single SE bracket is just unacceptable for such a young age group, with a couple of away games potentially requiring overnight stay.
 
We'll see. The Ole move would put us to "4" in North, but the way toucan laid it out, they may not balance between the 2 Silvers and grab more from the South if there are better records. .

The way I see it your team has a large chance of getting into SE if you petition.
I am not sure that they will find more than 6 teams...
 
And they are not the only one ;)

The amount of driving required for this single SE bracket is just unacceptable for such a young age group, with a couple of away games potentially requiring overnight stay.


Well said and 100% agree.

Driving all over SoCal for 9 year olds to play is unnecessary. With the lack of youth teams going on in the ‘08-‘10 age group, it’s time to go back to one league. Call it CSL, SCDSL, or whatever, the money is drying up for club organizations so they need to make one league.
 
Well said and 100% agree.

Driving all over SoCal for 9 year olds to play is unnecessary. With the lack of youth teams going on in the ‘08-‘10 age group, it’s time to go back to one league. Call it CSL, SCDSL, or whatever, the money is drying up for club organizations so they need to make one league.

Agree with everything you said but the part in red. What evidence is there for making that statement?
 
Agree with everything you said but the part in red. What evidence is there for making that statement?
At a macro level, California’s population growth is declining or flat at best.

At a club level, I don’t have overall SoCal stats but in North Orange County you are seeing club organizations shrinking in terms of teams at both boys and girls.
You are seeing clubs merging or forming alliances to allow kids to make it to academy teams.

At the G09 level, most teams in north Orange County are having a tough time keeping kids to make a full roster. I think Slammers is the only one that has more than 3 full g09 teams. Most teams have 9 to 11 girls. Others are collapsing due to lack of interest.

Pats PYL lost a lot of teams and they are not the only ones in the area.

Also let’s keep in mind that club soccer used to be around $1,500 to $2k. Now we are seeing $3k+. That increase in fee alone will make parents question the value of keeping kids in club.

Not sure how other regions in SoCal are doing but curious to see if this trend is the same.
 
Not going to debate or question your response other than to say that you didn't respond to my question. In fact, you yourself says that costs to have your kid on a team have up to doubled, so again, where do you see the money drying up? To me, it sure seems like there is more and more every year.
 
Not going to debate or question your response other than to say that you didn't respond to my question. In fact, you yourself says that costs to have your kid on a team have up to doubled, so again, where do you see the money drying up? To me, it sure seems like there is more and more every year.
Fewer teams. Money is drying up because you have fewer players and fewer teams. Look at Fullerton rangers for example or ac brea. They have half of the teams they once had. Same as other smaller club organizations that are merging or no longer around. Slammers and strikers are growing but not at the same rate as the teams that are no longer around.


Again it could be just in my area but to me it does seem like there’s fewer teams at least at the younger age groups.
 
I thought that the post was self explanatory but I will try to help: It only shows that for a limited sample (same league, same gender, same clubs) the trend of number of teams is falling substantially.
You can always put your phone upside down and read the numbers that way to support your agenda, whatever that is.
 
I hope this post was not meant to support Soccer Fans post because that would be silly.


Alright Classico. Let’s see your supporting data on why you believe there’s more money for club teams now than before.

By the way, here’s more legitimate stats. 14% drop over the past 3 years in 6-12 year old kids playing soccer. Quote from NYTimes “ it’s lost more child participants than any other sport”.

Prove us wrong “El Classico”.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/sports/world-cup/soccer-youth-decline.html
 
I thought that the post was self explanatory but I will try to help: It only shows that for a limited sample (same league, same gender, same clubs) the trend of number of teams is falling substantially.
You can always put your phone upside down and read the numbers that way to support your agenda, whatever that is.

I was trying to be polite, which opened the door for you to come back and throw insults so let me put it another way so the common idiot can understand what I am saying.

1. My point, and only point, was that poster said the money in club soccer is drying up. But in that same post, she says parents that were paying $1,500 are now paying up to $3,000 which would indicate to me, that unless there are more than 50% fewer teams, the money is the same. Now if we take into account that the with those fewer teams, a club now has fewer coaches to pay but the same money coming in, that, to me, would mean more money for clubs and not as soccer fan states, that the money is drying up. So please, as I originally asked, show me some evidence that the money is drying up.

2. Just because you can count to 103 proves only that you graduated pre-school, not that the money in club soccer is drying up. Taking a quick look at the club, and a little history, of where your girl plays, I can see how you might believe that the money is drying up, but what you fail to understand is that your daughter looks to be playing for a shitty club that seems to be losing more and more teams every year. What you may not realize is that most of those teams or players are not riding off into the sunset but rather going to other clubs or teams. That's more of a reflection on the leadership at your club, not the amount of money being spent on club soccer. It seems the only thing drying up is the Fullerton Rangers soccer club. Maybe if they spent more time running the club and player development and less time trying to recruit on this board, they wouldn't be drying up.

3. A quick point about your numbers, why not compare age groups to age groups. U9 will always have fewer teams as that is the introduction age to club soccer for most. Compare U9 to previous year U9 factoring in all leagues in a geographic area to see if indeed the numbers hold. However, it still wouldn't support the statement that the money is drying up.
 
going to other clubs or teams. That's more of a
I hope this post was not meant to support Soccer Fans post because that would be silly.


El Classico, I just went to the cal south financial statements and it shows a slight decrease from 2016 to 2017 in player registration fees. 2015 = $3.58M in player fees. 2016 = $3.74M. 2017 = 3.72M. 2018 numbers are not posted. Small sample but the trend is flat. CRL revenue is down but coaching education is up. It will be interesting to see what 2018 financials look.
 
I was trying to be polite, which opened the door for you to come back and throw insults so let me put it another way so the common idiot can understand what I am saying.

1. My point, and only point, was that poster said the money in club soccer is drying up. But in that same post, she says parents that were paying $1,500 are now paying up to $3,000 which would indicate to me, that unless there are more than 50% fewer teams, the money is the same. Now if we take into account that the with those fewer teams, a club now has fewer coaches to pay but the same money coming in, that, to me, would mean more money for clubs and not as soccer fan states, that the money is drying up. So please, as I originally asked, show me some evidence that the money is drying up.

2. Just because you can count to 103 proves only that you graduated pre-school, not that the money in club soccer is drying up. Taking a quick look at the club, and a little history, of where your girl plays, I can see how you might believe that the money is drying up, but what you fail to understand is that your daughter looks to be playing for a shitty club that seems to be losing more and more teams every year. What you may not realize is that most of those teams or players are not riding off into the sunset but rather going to other clubs or teams. That's more of a reflection on the leadership at your club, not the amount of money being spent on club soccer. It seems the only thing drying up is the Fullerton Rangers soccer club. Maybe if they spent more time running the club and player development and less time trying to recruit on this board, they wouldn't be drying up.

3. A quick point about your numbers, why not compare age groups to age groups. U9 will always have fewer teams as that is the introduction age to club soccer for most. Compare U9 to previous year U9 factoring in all leagues in a geographic area to see if indeed the numbers hold. However, it still wouldn't support the statement that the money is drying up.

Lol, Since you brilliantly figured out where my girls play you are welcome to come and introduce yourself next occasion so maybe we can continue the discussion at a level you can better understand.
Until then so long, troll.
 
"Taking a quick look at the club, and a little history, of where your girl plays, I can see how you might believe that the money is drying up, but what you fail tounderstand is that your daughterlooks to be playing for a shitty clubthat seems to be losing more and more teams every year. What you may not realize is that most of those teams or players are not riding off into thesunset but rather going to other clubs or teams. That's more of a reflectionon the leadership at your club, not theamount of money being spent on clubsoccer. It seems the only thing dryingup is the Fullerton Rangers soccer club. Maybe if they spent more time running the club and playerdevelopment and less time trying torecruit on this board, they wouldn't be drying up."

Hey guys I have a difference in opinion so I'm going to throw a tantrum and bad mouth another club without saying where my kid plays. Grow up. Venatsyo is right, you are a salty troll.
 
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