Concussions and who is looking out for the kid.

[socalkdg]

In our game Sunday (U15) our girl with the strongest kick on the team hit another girl right in the forehead from about 6 feet away as she was trying to clear it. The girl then took a couple steps, then she hit the ground. Then she got up again, walked a bit more, then went down again. Their coach came over and eventually walked her to the sidelines. Seeing it live was bad, but the video replay was even worse as I was recording the defensive side of the game and the camera was right by where it happened. One of the hardest hits I've seen to the head.

First, I hope she is ok. Second, I'd like to send out thanks to the referee that made her leave after she came back in. What is standard practice with concussions for youth soccer? Who is responsible? Player? Parent? Coach? Referee? all of them?

 

[Frank]

All of them

 

[dk_b]

US Soccer's guidelines PLUS California law that applies to youth organizations (NOT JUST SCHOOLS) require that any player removed with a suspected head injury have medical clearance before reentering. So the coach/club/team + the official in charge are all responsible (as @Frank notes above).

All coaches/DOCs/parents/refs should be familiar with this: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=124235.&lawCode=HSC. Of particular note:

(a)(1): "An athlete who is suspected of sustaining a concussion or other head injury in an athletic activity shall be immediately removed from the athletic activity for the remainder of the day, and shall not be permitted to return to any athletic activity until he or she is evaluated by a licensed health care provider. The athlete shall not be permitted to return to athletic activity until he or she receives written clearance to return to athletic activity from a licensed health care provider. If the licensed health care provider determines that the athlete sustained a concussion or other head injury, the athlete shall also complete a graduated return-to-play protocol of no less than seven days in duration under the supervision of a licensed health care provider."

An athlete SUSPECTED of sustaining a concussion OR OTHER HEAD INJURY shall not be permitted to return until evaluated by a licensed health care provider. So unless they have one on the sideline, any player removed with a suspected head injury should NOT be allowed to reenter. Good job, ref, in this case!

(and if your club uses the CIF guidelines (which many clubs and pediatric sports meds group do (and should unless they are more conservative), all concussion require a minimum of "Symptom Free + 7 Days" for Return to Play. After speaking with a Dr who helped write those guidelines, I learned the "WHY" as this differs from fairly recent (not many years ago) protocols which were based more on "Symptom Free + 1 Day". She also showed me how a kid who may be outwardly symptom free may still have deficiencies if he/she has the benefit of a baseline IMPACT test to consult and compare)

 

[Surfref]

In our game Sunday (U15) our girl with the strongest kick on the team hit another girl right in the forehead from about 6 feet away as she was trying to clear it. The girl then took a couple steps, then she hit the ground. Then she got up again, walked a bit more, then went down again. Their coach came over and eventually walked her to the sidelines. Seeing it live was bad, but the video replay was even worse as I was recording the defensive side of the game and the camera was right by where it happened. One of the hardest hits I've seen to the head.

First, I hope she is ok. Second, I'd like to send out thanks to the referee that made her leave after she came back in. What is standard practice with concussions for youth soccer? Who is responsible? Player? Parent? Coach? Referee? all of them?

Initially the referee is responsible. Then it moves over to the coach and if available an athletic trainer(ATC). If no ATC and the coach tries to put the player back in the game, the referee can deny refuse to have the player renter if the referee believes there is a possible head injury. Coaches can get in serious trouble if they try to go against the ref’s decision.

 

[dk_b]

Initially the referee is responsible. Then it moves over to the coach and if available an athletic trainer(ATC). If no ATC and the coach tries to put the player back in the game, the referee can deny refuse to have the player renter if the referee believes there is a possible head injury. Coaches can get in serious trouble if they try to go against the ref’s decision.

It’s not that the referee “can deny” but the referee MUST deny. It is equally on the coach and the ref - at least according to the law. The lead in language to the excerpt I pasted above states the following (the emphasis is added by me): “(a) A youth sports organization that elects to offer an athletic program shall comply with all of the following” (and that includes (1) above).

Later in the statute, “youth sports organization” is clearly defined to include clubs (like soccer clubs). There really is no ambiguity to the statute. The coach is violating not just US Soccer’s overarching concussion protocol (I can paste that but I assume that all reading this have reviewed it) but violating CA law.

 

[oh canada]

If you're not letting your boys play football due to concussion risk, then you should feel the same about your daughter playing soccer. The data shows even more risk in girls soccer:

http://advocate.jbu.edu/2018/12/27/womens-soccer-causes-more-concussions-than-football/

 

[jpeter]

If you're not letting your boys play football due to concussion risk, then you should feel the same about your daughter playing soccer. The data shows even more risk in girls soccer:

http://advocate.jbu.edu/2018/12/27/womens-soccer-causes-more-concussions-than-football/

I dunno know about that study but my first hand experience say otherwise.
Our oldest daughter played HS soccer all 4 years and they one and only consussions during those years was a keeper collision. Her older brother played 4 years football and there were almost weekly consussions among the teams. Our youngest son played football until high school and there was several kids each year consussed just saying and I can only remember one kid that had one due to soccer during that time frame.

 

[coachrefparent]

I dunno know about that study but my first hand experience say otherwise.
Our oldest daughter played HS soccer all 4 years and they one and only consussions during those years was a keeper collision. Her older brother played 4 years football and there were almost weekly consussions among the teams. Our youngest son played football until high school and there was several kids each year consussed just saying and I can only remember one kid that had one due to soccer during that time frame.

How may concussions did your older son have in 4 years playing football?

 

[outside!]

If you're not letting your boys play football due to concussion risk, then you should feel the same about your daughter playing soccer. The data shows even more risk in girls soccer:

http://advocate.jbu.edu/2018/12/27/womens-soccer-causes-more-concussions-than-football/

It is not just concussions that are the issue. The repeated, non-concussive blows to the head in football are also a problem. I fully agree with the limitations on heading that have been implemented in soccer. I would even go a step further make heading a goal keeper's drop kick a penalty at all ages.

 

[espola]

It is not just concussions that are the issue. The repeated, non-concussive blows to the head in football are also a problem. I fully agree with the limitations on heading that have been implemented in soccer. I would even go a step further make heading a goal keeper's drop kick a penalty at all ages.

I'm not sure what you mean by "heading a goal keeper's drop kick".

 

[outside!]

I'm not sure what you mean by "heading a goal keeper's drop kick".

When the goal keeper punts the ball down the field, I see not good reason to head that ball. Get it on the ground and control it.

 

[jpeter]

How may concussions did your older son have in 4 years playing football?

2 in 4yrs, but about 1/3 of his teamates over the years didn't fair as well with most of them sustaining multiples in the same year.

Come to think of it between my 3 kids they have played in around 3,000 or so soccer games and I don't even think there been 30 concussions that I know about, only seen a few my self.

Comparison to football where I've been to fewer than a couple hundred games and witnesed at least 25 or so with another 75 or so during practices or from the other teams that you hear about later .

 

[oh canada]

I dunno know about that study but my first hand experience say otherwise.
Our oldest daughter played HS soccer all 4 years and they one and only consussions during those years was a keeper collision. Her older brother played 4 years football and there were almost weekly concussions among the teams. Our youngest son played football until high school and there was several kids each year consussed just saying and I can only remember one kid that had one due to soccer during that time frame.

I agree that studies can be manipulated. But something to be careful about with personal experience is confusing "rate" of injury and "number" of injuries. It's very likely that more football players at your kids' school suffered concussions because there are 2-3x the number of players. But they are not 2-3x more likely to get concussions than girls playing soccer.

That said, when looking at the studies that say girls soccer more concussions than boys, it's actually based on the finding that IF a girl soccer player gets injured, it's more likely to be a concussion (27%) than IF a boy football player gets injured and it is a concussion (24%). In other words, 100 football players get an injury, 24 of them are concussions vs. 27 for girls. That's a bit different than just saying that girl soccer players get more concussions than boy football players, so I agree with you there. Here's the best hard data I could find...suffice to say that girl's soccer has enough concussion occurrences that parents should be just as concerned about their daughters playing soccer as their sons playing football. Look at the difference between girls playing soccer and boys soccer...that's striking. And, the college "rate" between men's football and women's soccer is really close.

 

[socalkdg]

All I know is that I hope this girls parents took their daughter to the doctor to have her checked out. Just watched it last night and easily the worst ball to head situation I've seen.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

When the goal keeper punts the ball down the field, I see not good reason to head that ball. Get it on the ground and control it.

What if your arms are locked with opponent trying to jockey for position on where ball will land? More often than not players don't have time/space to control a punt/goal kick.

 

[outside!]

What if your arms are locked with opponent trying to jockey for position on where ball will land? More often than not players don't have time/space to control a punt/goal kick.

Would apply to both players. Recent research has shown that repeated non-concussive blows to the head are not a good thing. My gut feel is that bigger blows are worse than smaller blows. This would be a very easy change to implement.

 

[dk_b]

Would apply to both players. Recent research has shown that repeated non-concussive blows to the head are not a good thing. My gut feel is that bigger blows are worse than smaller blows. This would be a very easy change to implement.

I completely agree with you. Very few youth players - and a bit more college-level - can use their head to control a punt/drop-kick or long goal kick. My 17yo routinely drop kicks the ball 60+ yards and hits a static ball on a goal kick/free kick in excess of 50 yards (before I hear from some - she distributes short, mid and long, usually short; she knows how to play). That size 5 packs a lot of energy and I cringe when I see players head the ball on a long ball. My younger kids are field players - they have good technique with their head but I will urge them to avoid heading long balls.

 

[espola]

When the goal keeper punts the ball down the field, I see not good reason to head that ball. Get it on the ground and control it.

A player who is prepared for it is not likely to be injured by a ball kicked by any means after it has traveled far enough to take some of the momentum off it. For worse is getting hit in the head while standing 10 yards from a free-kick. The scary issue on long kicks is head-to-head contact.

 

[dk_b]

A player who is prepared for it is not likely to be injured by a ball kicked by any means after it has traveled far enough to take some of the momentum off it. For worse is getting hit in the head while standing 10 yards from a free-kick. The scary issue on long kicks is head-to-head contact.

One of the theories about the greater risk to girls/women in soccer is that their neck strength is less than that of men (on average). You are right about the 10 yard free kick - or the errant clear before anyone has time to tense their necks - but that long (Size 5) ball is still carrying a lot of energy and the head (even with good technique) has to absorb that.

(BTW: I am generally in favor of teaching heading and allowing heading. The rate of "initial concussion" for purposeful heading of a ball is not high (or has not been shown to be high). The risk of head-to-head (as you note, @espola), head-to-ground, head-to-post are much higher. That said, head-to-head happens in contested headers (not sure how to safely assess) and I do think the repeated blows of long-balls (sort of like the sub-concussive blows of an offensive lineman) are of concern.)

 

[timbuck]

I’m actually surprised that females play with the same size/weight ball as males.
A lighter weight (maybe even slightly smaller) than a size 5 ball should be used at the 11v11 but under 18 years old level.