Handball?

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SILVER ELITE
Had a good game this weekend. I thought the ref crew was excellent (honestly). Couple of the calls I found to be unexpected and I would like to get interpretation.

I'm purposely leaving out the call/no call. Not trying to castigate anyone, just trying to understand things better.

First clip:
 
First of all, where and the hell is the referee. The initial camera angle is really wide and covers over a quarter of the field, but no referee can be seen in the frame despite numerous players in the penalty area. The referee MUST be down in the area to see plays/fouls in and around the penalty area.

The initial push by the defender occurs in the Penalty Area. Had the referee been properly positioned he would have seen the push and position on the field and called a Pushing foul in the Penalty Area for a PK. As for any Handling foul, it is inconsequential because it occurred after the pushing foul.

If a player falls and their hands are out to break their fall and theball hits the player’s arm(s) or hand(s) it is not a Handling foul. Just wait until next year when the new LOTG come out and Handling fouls will be changed depending on the location on the field and what happens.
 
No penalty. Not enough for a pushing foul. Ball and attacker heading away from goal, slight push, but nothing egregious. Attacker stumbles, but if we're giving penalties for that, we'd have 5-6 a game. No handball either for the reasons expressed above.
 
Tea and Busquets said:
No penalty. Not enough for a pushing foul. Ball and attacker heading away from goal, slight push, but nothing egregious. Attacker stumbles, but if we're giving penalties for that, we'd have 5-6 a game. No handball either for the reasons expressed above.
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I'm with you on the non-call for pushing. He clearly put his hands on the back of the attacker, but I don't see where the attacker's upper body is pushed forward and the defender doesn't follow through the contact or fully extend his arms, in fact he quickly pulls back his hands as soon as contact is made. To me it looks more like the defender was bracing himself (which granted can still be a push). Regardless the attacker tripping and the slight push by the defender are unrelated. Unfortunately, the ref wasn't in a position to effectively make any call. I think reasonable minds can disagree on this call.
 
watfly said:
I'm with you on the non-call for pushing. He clearly put his hands on the back of the attacker, but I don't see where the attacker's upper body is pushed forward and the defender doesn't follow through the contact or fully extend his arms, in fact he quickly pulls back his hands as soon as contact is made. To me it looks more like the defender was bracing himself (which granted can still be a push). Regardless the attacker tripping and the slight push by the defender are unrelated. Unfortunately, the ref wasn't in a position to effectively make any call. I think reasonable minds can disagree on this call.
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Agreed on all your points.
 
I think no call for the pushing, there is a better argument for a trip. At this age you can't call that slight physicality from behind a push.

The attacker doesn't even want the pushing foul, he wants the tripping foul, which is why he is holding his ankle.

Not handling.
 
Surfref said:
First of all, where and the hell is the referee. The initial camera angle is really wide and covers over a quarter of the field, but no referee can be seen in the frame despite numerous players in the penalty area. The referee MUST be down in the area to see plays/fouls in and around the penalty area.

The initial push by the defender occurs in the Penalty Area. Had the referee been properly positioned he would have seen the push and position on the field and called a Pushing foul in the Penalty Area for a PK. As for any Handling foul, it is inconsequential because it occurred after the pushing foul.

If a player falls and their hands are out to break their fall and theball hits the player’s arm(s) or hand(s) it is not a Handling foul. Just wait until next year when the new LOTG come out and Handling fouls will be changed depending on the location on the field and what happens.
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With all due respects, what pushing foul? The defender is supposed not to challenge for the ball or modulate their speed in a fast-paced sequence of events?

Where is the referee? How about anticipating the next phase of play?
 
Surfref said:
Wow!!! Not sure how that can be a no call. There was clearly a foul. I assume the no call is because the referee was out of position.
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I don't assume that. I assume he made the same decision I would have made. And I would have anticipated the next drop zone, judged the likely sequence of events based on attacker/defender ratio and my knowledge of the teams to then place myself in the best possible location on the field while still maintaining a good seeing angle of what's going on. Unless I know otherwise for a fact, I'm assuming that.
 
This is actually a pretty difficult one. The camera angle is likely better than the position/angle the referee would have had. From the referees' perspective, it probably looked more like a foul than it actually was.

Based on the camera angle, it is not a foul. The defender puts out his arms but doesn't push the attacker; they both fall to ground because of an accidental tangling of their legs. The handball issue? Like someone mentioned, the law update will hopefully help clarify in situations like this but the ref could probably have got away with either a call or no call for handball. I don't think the defender would have complained too much had the handball call gone against him.

Referees do have to base decisions primarily on the application of the LOTG but I also feel that there has to be an element of discretion and common sense based on individual situations and circumstances. In this situation, both teams likely wouldn't have complained too much had the referee awarded a free kick on the edge of the area for handball (even though in slow motion you see the handball is just inside the area). Is that strictly the correct decision based on the LOTG? No. Is it what you might consider a 'fair' outcome based on the circumstance? Yes, I believe so.

Referees who can think on their feet and use common sense combined with the LOTG (and use great communication to sell their decisions) are the ones who usually progress quickest and get appreciation from teams they officiate.
 
I love when parents or coaches call "handball" when there is no such thing --- too many refs don't let the game flow for these "handballs"

Try "DELIBERATE handling of the ball" as the real call

There was none here
 
Law5 said:
I love when parents or coaches call "handball" when there is no such thing --- too many refs don't let the game flow for these "handballs"

Try "DELIBERATE handling of the ball" as the real call

There was none here
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So, you know more than the International Football Association Board who call it handball?
 
Just a Parent said:
So, you know more than the International Football Association Board who call it handball?
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That's the beauty of it .... I don't have to call it if I don't want to just because it makes contact with a players shoulder to fingertip. Here is the call direct from FIFA:

HANDLING THE BALL

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.

The following must be considered:
  • the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
  • the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
  • the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence
  • touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an offence
  • hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an offence
The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. Inside their penalty area, the goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick or any related sanction but can be guilty of handling offences that incur an indirect free kick.

P.S. - It's still NOT called a handball
 
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