How do leagues stack up?

I believe you've stated the same point repeatedly (top teams in ECNL are good, bottom are particularly weak), but even if objectively true - the data just doesn't show anything different going on in ECNL, ECRL, GA, or even NPL. I looked at the 2010G and 2009G teams for ECNL SW, ECNL-R SW, GA SW, and NPL Norcal for fun. Here's what the gap in goal ratings are from the #1 team to the bottom team in each bracket:

ECNL 2010: 4 goals, 6 goals,
ECNL 2009: 5 goals, 4 goals
ECNL R 2010: 5 goals, 5 goals
ECNL R 2009: 5 goals, 7 goals
GA 2010: 5 goals
GA 2009: 3 goals
NPL 2010: 6 goals
NPL 2009: 2 goals

The closest from top to bottom was the 2009 NPL bracket, but in pretty much every other bracket - you can see the results above. The top team will beat the bottom team by 5 goals, give or take a goal - whether NL, RL, GA, or NPL. The belief that ECNL is doing something either different or nefarious to keep the top teams matched up against cannon fodder is either ubiquitous in every league, or it's as nonexistent there as anywhere else. It's certainly clear that the top teams (in NL, but also in RL, GA, and elsewhere) do attract a larger amount of the talent pool, allowing them to maintain and even strengthen their position over time. But there doesn't need to be a stated goal or specific actions to make it happen - it's what happens naturally, as kids and parents gravitate to the winning teams while the weaker teams have a harder time of retention and recruitment. Having a club with so many players that could make up a second NL team can be a problem for that club and those players, as they then have a choice to either go to RL or to sit on the bench for a huge roster. But immediately allowing 2 teams doesn't necessarily fix the problem as described either. It means there is another choice of team in the top league, keeping someone playing NL instead of bumping some down to RL - but in doing so bumping other NL players down to RL if the brackets stay similar sizes and the bottom team or teams do need to make the switch.
I believe that I've consistantly said that ECNL Socal has 3-4 top clubs + eveyone else.

I've also said that no matter what league you're playing in you want to be playing on one of the top teams.

You seem to be inferring that I'm saying that whats happening in ECNL Socal isnt happening in other leagues. This is not the case hence why I've stated that you want to be on a top team no matter the league.

What bothers me is when people say that if you're not playing in a certain league the sky is falling. It's not true. Theres good players + good teams in all the different leagues. Unfortunately some never get the chance to prove it before talent is recruited away.
 
I believe that I've consistantly said that ECNL Socal has 3-4 top clubs + eveyone else.

I've also said that no matter what league you're playing in you want to be playing on one of the top teams.

You seem to be inferring that I'm saying that whats happening in ECNL Socal isnt happening in other leagues. This is not the case hence why I've stated that you want to be on a top team no matter the league.

What bothers me is when people say that if you're not playing in a certain league the sky is falling. It's not true. Theres good players + good teams in all the different leagues. Unfortunately some never get the chance to prove it before talent is recruited away.

Very True, there are as many great players in NPL southwest as there are in GA southwest. Does not matter which league.
 
Very True, there are as many great players in NPL southwest as there are in GA southwest. Does not matter which league.
I don't think that is true. The letter leagues and particularly the super teams gather the best talent. If your kid is good they will likely be recruited by a elite team. Now some parents say no and those kids remain but... the ones that go get better faster playing and practicing with higher quality players. Players don't develop in a bubble they need coaching and teammates to help. Your kid could have a super high soccer IQ but if their teammates can't follow along what do they learn, how do they get better. I think there is a minimum level of play to develop players and that must be met to improve. My best advice is play on the team where you are a starter. Game time and coaching will make them better. If and when you outgrow that team move up to a better league or team. NPL may have some teams that are there but i am sure GA SW has many many more.
 
I don't think that is true. The letter leagues and particularly the super teams gather the best talent. If your kid is good they will likely be recruited by a elite team. Now some parents say no and those kids remain but... the ones that go get better faster playing and practicing with higher quality players. Players don't develop in a bubble they need coaching and teammates to help. Your kid could have a super high soccer IQ but if their teammates can't follow along what do they learn, how do they get better. I think there is a minimum level of play to develop players and that must be met to improve. My best advice is play on the team where you are a starter. Game time and coaching will make them better. If and when you outgrow that team move up to a better league or team. NPL may have some teams that are there but i am sure GA SW has many many more.
Many many more? Can you show me the comparison of the many mores?
 
Many many more? Can you show me the comparison of the many mores?
The many mores would be the environments with quality coaches and players. If you would like to look at the soccer rankings app and see where the GA teams are vs NPL i think that would do it. There may be NPL teams that have high quality coaches and players but there are also plenty of crap teams as well. I can guarantee the GA teams have quality coaches and players and while there may be some in NPL they aren't nearly as common.
 
The many mores would be the environments with quality coaches and players. If you would like to look at the soccer rankings app and see where the GA teams are vs NPL i think that would do it. There may be NPL teams that have high quality coaches and players but there are also plenty of crap teams as well. I can guarantee the GA teams have quality coaches and players and while there may be some in NPL they aren't nearly as common.
Guarantee? I've seen plenty of non GA coaches in southern California that are of greater quality. Tudela, SoCal Elite, and Force are just a few that have better coaches and than most socal GA club coaches for girls.
 
Guarantee? I've seen plenty of non GA coaches in southern California that are of greater quality. Tudela, SoCal Elite, and Force are just a few that have better coaches and than most socal GA club coaches for girls.

...and Beach, CFA, Future, ...
 
I used to have a coworker that owned a soccer club outside of Chicago that had 2000-3000 players.

He said running the club was easy, finding players was easy, the hardest part was finding quality coaches.

I don't know if he was paying poorly or if coaches in general are hard to find, probably both.
 
I used to have a coworker that owned a soccer club outside of Chicago that had 2000-3000 players.

He said running the club was easy, finding players was easy, the hardest part was finding quality coaches.

I don't know if he was paying poorly or if coaches in general are hard to find, probably both.
Depends what the standard is by "quality coaches". What do you care about: winning, developing the players, being a professional person (pick 2 usually) The dream coach:

-Needs to be able to recruit since building a winning squad is mostly about recruiting. The coaches have them for too little time to make much of an impact on a team, let alone making an individual player better
-Needs to know how to build a session that is productive and develops the team
-Needs to be able to inspire the team and players. At higher levels he shouldn't have to condition players since they've done that work outside the limited time of team practice.
-Needs to be familiar and up to date with all the latest tactics and be a tactical wizard. Should be familiar with all aspects of all positions from the goalkeeper to striker needs.
-Needs to be able to manage his own conduct and that of the parents on the sidelines and as part of the team dynamics such as playtime expectations
-Needs to be able to get the best out of his players by being professional and respectful without resorting to abuse
-Needs to be able to balance the need for winning with the need for developing and to get wins without resorting to short cuts like run and boot ball.
-Needs to be able to engage in the highest ethical conduct by not creating things like conflicts of interests or undue relationships with the parents
-Needs to be able to keep everyone happy and retention high

Pretty tall order in today's day and age, particularly if you aren't paying very well.
 
Same with tournaments why do you think there's so many in six different flights, because parents want to pay for "winning" that $2 medal and $20 trophy.

Haha am I the only one who gets annoyed when I see either clubs, players, or parents say they're "state cup winning team" or "man city/surf cup/whatever tournament" champions... but they played 3rd flight/division?

We don't always play the highest division but we try to. If we won a lower division tourney or entered state cup as flight 2 or 3 and won it... I think I would specify that... instead of saying we won a certain tournament or state cup...
 
Depends what the standard is by "quality coaches". What do you care about: winning, developing the players, being a professional person (pick 2 usually) The dream coach:

-Needs to be able to recruit since building a winning squad is mostly about recruiting. The coaches have them for too little time to make much of an impact on a team, let alone making an individual player better
-Needs to know how to build a session that is productive and develops the team
-Needs to be able to inspire the team and players. At higher levels he shouldn't have to condition players since they've done that work outside the limited time of team practice.
-Needs to be familiar and up to date with all the latest tactics and be a tactical wizard. Should be familiar with all aspects of all positions from the goalkeeper to striker needs.
-Needs to be able to manage his own conduct and that of the parents on the sidelines and as part of the team dynamics such as playtime expectations
-Needs to be able to get the best out of his players by being professional and respectful without resorting to abuse
-Needs to be able to balance the need for winning with the need for developing and to get wins without resorting to short cuts like run and boot ball.
-Needs to be able to engage in the highest ethical conduct by not creating things like conflicts of interests or undue relationships with the parents
-Needs to be able to keep everyone happy and retention high

Pretty tall order in today's day and age, particularly if you aren't paying very well.
Need's to also find a TM/GM that can help with recruiting todays human being.
 
Haha am I the only one who gets annoyed when I see either clubs, players, or parents say they're "state cup winning team" or "man city/surf cup/whatever tournament" champions... but they played 3rd flight/division?

We don't always play the highest division but we try to. If we won a lower division tourney or entered state cup as flight 2 or 3 and won it... I think I would specify that... instead of saying we won a certain tournament or state cup...
You have to keep in mind that sometimes tournaments put top teams in lower brackets so certain "chosen" teams dont have to face them.

I've seen Polo Fields related tournaments do this to hot + up and coming smaller club teams at younger ages.

*cough* Ole *cough*

Because of this I dont always roll my eyes at silver level tournament wins. (Just usually)
 
That is one thing that I have noticed across the leagues. At least in AZ. The ECNL and GA teams have quality throughout. Some drop when subs come in but still good players. You get to ECRL and DPL and the quality drops. The starting 11 could be really good but after that it gets sketchy. Another thing about ECNL/ECRL especially in the SW. The top ECRL teams (Beach, Legends, Slammers etc) are ranked higher than most of the mid Tier ECNL teams. It makes sense but kinda blew me away. Most parents are so in awe of ECNL but when you really look at it, its like any other league. There are good and bad teams in it and the mid bottom teams are really no better and sometimes worse than the league below.

Remember that rankings are flawed as they can only show results based on who you play....so teams playing weak opponents often get a false ranking especially if they can run up scores......
 
Remember that rankings are flawed as they can only show results based on who you play....so teams playing weak opponents often get a false ranking especially if they can run up scores......

This is categorically and entirely false. It is mathematically wrong. It is a provably incorrect statement.

But that never stopped anyone from believing anything else, I can't imagine why this would be any different.
 
This is categorically and entirely false. It is mathematically wrong. It is a provably incorrect statement.

But that never stopped anyone from believing anything else, I can't imagine why this would be any different.
I have to agree with RandomSoccerFan.

Running up the score on poor teams wont increase a teams ranking.

It will get bigger clubs interested in a smaller clubs team because they likely have a strong forward to recruit.
 
That doesn't look right, something is off.
It's probably right. "Average of top 10 teams per league" + no kind of power rating per league. If it was average of top 100 teams per league you'd probably get a different result.

What it's showing is that the top 10 09 teams from the leagues listed win a lot. Ths could mean that the top 10 teams are really good ,or the teams they play against are really bad, or both
 
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