PREMIER next year [Archive]

Keepersrule

11-16-2005, 09:04 AM

boge? blondie? keepersrule? help please

Since you asked, here is my take. If you find it long, boring and think that you may have seen some of it elsewhere you are probably right on all three counts.

First of all, National Cup is a USYSA event. In order to participate, your team must be registered through the state organization recognized by USSF and play in a league with at least 4 other like registered teams. If you are in Southern California, that organization is Cal South. If CSL eventually decides not to register its teams via Cal South (a very distinct possibility) then your team may NOT be eligible to participate in National Cup, unless you decide to dual register in which case you'll have to be very careful to comply with the Cal South roster rules. CSL currently maintains they will remain with USYSA, which means our fees will increase to cover the dual registrations.

I have contacted a few friends from the east coast who have experience with Super Y League. The consensus seems to be that at this point in time, Super Y is a second rate competition with very few quality teams (98 listed in total nationwide!) participating. They schedule their competition during the summer so as to not compete directly with the USYSA leagues in the fall. Most of the quality teams that do compete treat it in the same manner as we treat the CSL “spring league.” If you’ve played spring you know what I mean. You can check out the website yourself at Click here: United Soccer Leagues (USL) (http://supery.uslsoccer.com/).

Can CSL participation in US Club bring instant credibility to the US Club programs? Perhaps, but there is a long ways to go with no assurance that it will happen in time for our kids. For the majority of bronze, silver, silver-elite and even gold teams, this may just be much ado about nothing. From what I can see, this only impacts the winners of the gold (U13-U15) and premier (U16 and U17) brackets as these brackets will be deemed the Y-league for Southern California Division. This may have the effect of bringing more SD teams into CSL, I know at least one SD club who is seriously considering making the move. In any event, at least in the short term, it will most likely be a case of the rich getting richer. For the rest of us U15’s who do not regularly compete on SoCal, Arsenal, Barcelona or ISC, we’d be better off if Mr. Sparks bought us lottery tickets every other month.

To the extent that CSL teams should dominate the Y-League championships, I suppose that is a plus for Southern California youth soccer, however if the dominance is either absolute or non-existent, I’m sure the luster will fade quickly. I have heard that CSL has promised to pay for the travel costs of the teams that will compete in the Y-League championships. From what revenue source will these funds come? For how long will this funding last? Has US Club agreed to pay a commission or give a kick back to CSL (or anyone associated with CSL)? If they have made such an agreement, will CSL feel ethically bound to disclose such?

It will be interesting to see how player registration and player movement will work out as it seems this issue is where US Club and USYSA rules are most incompatible. Will US Club look the other way and permit CSL to retain the restrictive USYSA transfer rules or will they demand compliance with what appears to be the cornerstone of their raison d’etre, unrestricted playermovement between teams and clubs. If such compliance is demanded, CSL will have to chage its current rules (see competition rule 1(B)) as they require compliance with Cal South rules and regulations.

Another issue to consider is that league play is only 10-12 weeks out of the year. For the rest of the time, this CSL, CYSA, US Club conflict will have little impact. High School will be High School and Nike will still invite whom they want to the Manchester United Tournament, the same for the Disney and Dallas showcases. Who and where we play will be less a function of our league affiliations and more a function of funding and parental egos. Just as it is currently.

Finally, the issue not currently being discussed to any great extent is what will become of ODP. If your kid wants to play at the highest level for maximum exposure, ODP should be a concern. Super Y does participate in ODP, but only on a National, not a regional level. Perhaps CSL can demand a regional program. Cal South ODP will only be available for players registered via Cal South. US Club has the id2 program, but that is currently available only for U13 and U14 Boys. There is no girls program at any age group. For what its worth, one of the most vociferous complaints about Cal South’s ODP is the discontinuation of the listing of the players pool. Those complaints will not be answered, as Super Y does not publish their ODP players list either. Neither does US Club publish an id2 players list.

IMHO, the current Cal South ODP system works fairly well. There will always be complaints about the fringe players who make the pool but for the most part there is little controversy regarding the players selected to the travel team. [Full disclosure item: I am a Hoffman fan (but otherwise neutral on the CYSA/CSL conflict)and my son has been one of those fringe players]. In a Panglossian world, the So Cal soccer community would emerge with two ODP teams of equal strength, with twice as many players given the opportunity for greater exposure and with the players given their choice of teams. I fear that what will happen is that lines will be drawn, false allegiances demanded and player choice restricted. How will the new system be administered? If PDP is the model, look for the same amount of secrecy with more ISC and less Surf/So Cal influence. Allegations of politics over talent are simply a natural byproduct of any all star selection process.

Why we are where we are today is, IMHO, more about the personalities involved than about an intelligent discussion of what is the correct path for youth soccer in southern California. It appears from the outside looking in that each side has more than their fair share of men whose arrogance is exceeded only by their girth and ethically challenged individuals in positions that demand the highest of ethical values. This clearly does not bode well for the management of a sport where fitness and agility are the keys to success. Super Y is nice, albeit somewhat superfluous, but it does not address the critical issues that need to be fixed: subjective and secretive promotion/relegation, archaic player transfer rules, and long term player development vs. short term competitive success.

Blondie

11-16-2005, 12:07 PM

RED

11-16-2005, 12:27 PM

I also saw a few scouts out there this weekend. Scott was watching the game before us U15 and ours U15. I am pretty sure there are no 92s on either team. He seemed to be taking a lot of notes. If you were talking to Joey then it would seem right that he would only be looking at 92s.

goalaso

11-16-2005, 01:53 PM

Keepersrule

11-16-2005, 02:58 PM

Interesting you mention ODP, of which there have been concerns for the last 5-10 years about the way it is run. I was surprised this past weekend after being told that scouts would be out looking at '90's, 91's, and '92's for the winter pool at league cup at the Oaks. Unfortunately, I was told by a scout present that they were only there for the '92's. When asked about the olders, I was told that they pretty much already know who they want, and the lists will probably not change that much. Granted there are some players who were chosen two years ago that are still power-house players, but we all know that players change espcially at this age from 13 to 16. If the ODP scouts are not out there looking at these changes and bettering (is there such a word?) their teams, then the system is still flawed. What better venue for them to look this past weekend, then the Oaks where 14, 15, and 16's were playing the best of the best?

I would also agree with you that our fees will be raised by CSL for this dual registration. They would have to be, and they would need to raise the funds for the travel expenses.

Nice attempt to change the subject, but I think you missed my point. Super Y presents the opportunity for a second, CSL-only ODP for southern Californian soccer players. Theoretically, presuming your implication is correct that Cal South is not interested in updating the ODP rosters, the players that you are concerned about would be given a second chance. Regardless, I believe your premise incorrect and I'm sure the scout you spoke with wasn't Scott. No offense is intended, but if you think that either Scott or Joey are willing to overlook quality talent to field a sub-par team in order to satisfy the political concerns of others, you think wrong.

After further consideration, it appears to me that if I am correct about the Super Y league only impacting the uber echelon teams, then the question we should ask is why must the rest of us have to pay extra for another free trip for Slammers/SoCal/ Blues/Barcelona/Arsenal, et al?

Blondie

11-16-2005, 05:11 PM

Nice attempt to change the subject, but I think you missed my point. Super Y presents the opportunity for a second, CSL-only ODP for southern Californian soccer players. Theoretically, presuming your implication is correct that Cal South is not interested in updating the ODP rosters, the players that you are concerned about would be given a second chance. Regardless, I believe your premise incorrect and I'm sure the scout you spoke with wasn't Scott. No offense is intended, but if you think that either Scott or Joey are willing to overlook quality talent to field a sub-par team in order to satisfy the political concerns of others, you think wrong.

After further consideration, it appears to me that if I am correct about the Super Y league only impacting the uber echelon teams, then the question we should ask is why must the rest of us have to pay extra for another free trip for Slammers/SoCal/ Blues/Barcelona/Arsenal, et al?

Was not "attempting" to change the subject. Just continuing the discussion you started about ODP. Did not know there was a scout named Scott there as I only spoke with Joey who was there for the '92's. If your statement is correct that they are interested in updating the ODP rosters, then we shall all see changes to the rosters for the winter pool. I also agree that the rest of us should not pay extra for another "free trip", but then again we already pay a stipend for ODP players in our dues. And wouldn't it make sense that they would charge the players more in this Super Y league just like CSL does now for Premier players to cover the extra costs?

Gold Coast

11-17-2005, 03:38 PM

Keepersrule

11-18-2005, 08:11 AM

Was not "attempting" to change the subject. Just continuing the discussion you started about ODP. Did not know there was a scout named Scott there as I only spoke with Joey who was there for the '92's. If your statement is correct that they are interested in updating the ODP rosters, then we shall all see changes to the rosters for the winter pool. I also agree that the rest of us should not pay extra for another "free trip", but then again we already pay a stipend for ODP players in our dues. And wouldn't it make sense that they would charge the players more in this Super Y league just like CSL does now for Premier players to cover the extra costs?

Blondie:

My apologies, that was perhaps a little more pithy than I intended. Scott is the 91 ODP coach. I wouldn't expect a change from the no posting policy, so we may just have to observe who shows up at camp in December/January.

As far as the extra fee, I see no reason why (for U16's next year) Gold, SE, Silver or Bronze teams should have to pay the US Club fee when, for all practical purposes, only the winner of the Premier division will participate in Super Y. From what I understand, the ODP "stipend" is funded via a $10 per team tournament fee surcharge for tournaments that are sanctioned by Cal South, not directly from the Cal South registration fees/dues. It takes a lot of tournaments (40?) at 56 cents per player per tournament to get to $22.

Super Y is just a designation to be added to the Premier "Brand." The only benefit that I see to Super Y is the trip to the "national" Super Y championships. Super Y ODP is not yet regionalized and (unlike USYSA ODP) sponsors no other competitions other than a single "National" camp. Therefore there won't be an additional 18-40 players given the extra look, but more likely the same 5-10 that seem to consistently be recognized as the best in our age group that already are getting the invite to the national team pool. Can't see Super Y ODP bringing in an additional 40 players to the "National" camp just to accomodate CSL, does anyone?

him

11-27-2005, 05:04 PM

when will they announce if a team made premier? is there going to be a presentation? what can we expect to happen?laust

Blondie

11-27-2005, 07:14 PM

when will they announce if a team made premier? is there going to be a presentation? what can we expect to happen?laust

I know privately some teams have already been told they're in. Some of us were talking about it at Harvest Cup, and the consesus was that most have "heard" Premier will be 12 teams with the top 8 in gold, the SE winners, and the winner of Presidio, which isn't Surf or Nomads, but a team I have not heard about before.

him

11-27-2005, 10:20 PM

thank you

Keepersrule

11-27-2005, 10:55 PM

I know privately some teams have already been told they're in. Some of us were talking about it at Harvest Cup, and the consesus was that most have "heard" Premier will be 12 teams with the top 8 in gold, the SE winners, and the winner of Presidio, which isn't Surf or Nomads, but a team I have not heard about before.

Blondie:

I love it when you tease me like this..............But seriously, do you think the teams will be announced before Nationals or after? I would be surprised if there is not significant player movement prior to Nationals in anticipation of this lineup. What do you think?

FYI, The Presidio team is Oranje Voetbal, a sleeper team that surprised everyone, especially Surf who lost to them 4-0 on the last day of the season when Surf needed only a tie to clinch the league title. They gave Arsenal their toughest match at Nomads this weekend.

Blondie

11-27-2005, 11:27 PM

Blondie:

I love it when you tease me like this..............But seriously, do you think the teams will be announced before Nationals or after? I would be surprised if there is not significant player movement prior to Nationals in anticipation of this lineup. What do you think?

FYI, The Presidio team is Oranje Voetbal, a sleeper team that surprised everyone, especially Surf who lost to them 4-0 on the last day of the season when Surf needed only a tie to clinch the league title. They gave Arsenal their toughest match at Nomads this weekend.

You know me Keepersrule, I am a tease! I do not think the teams will be officially announced BEFORE Nationals. However, I was told that the top 4-5 teams in CSL have already been told they are in based on their league standings. As your team is a SE team, I would "assume" that GS will wait until Nationals to see how ALL the SE teams do compared to the bottom 6 of gold to determine who goes where. I know, I know you probably will disagree with me on that one, but it makes more sense to compare the bottom six with the top SE's. I still agree with one of your previous postings that CSL should have a play-off after players are tied to their respective teams. That would be the fair thing to do.

I agree there will be significant player movement. There already is. NHB just lost 3 players in the last couple of weeks. Heard two went to Pats, including goalie, and one is probably coming to our team.

Where did this Oranje team come from? City? Team makeup?

Dominic

11-28-2005, 03:23 PM

Blondie give us your unofficial list of teams.

aragrev

11-28-2005, 03:40 PM

Keepersrule

11-28-2005, 04:32 PM

Where did this Oranje team come from? City? Team makeup?

Oranje Voetbal is from El Cajon. As far as team makeup is concerned, they are a boys team so I wouldn't think they'd wear any makeup at all. Is this a new fad I'm too old to know about?

Blondie

11-28-2005, 04:40 PM

Blondie give us your unofficial list of teams.

I'm flattered Admin. My "Blondeness is just beaming"; here you go:
1. Barcelona
2. Arsenal
3. So Cal Utd.
4. ISC
5. Flyers
6. Samba (if they retain the remaining players)
7. Orange Voetbal ( Can they hang?)

The remaining 5 could possibly be the following as it depends on their National showing:
1. Celtic (I like these guys. I know some do not. The cards they received this year may hurt their chance. They finished 7th in gold.)
2. Del Mar Sharks (Seem to be playing better than league showing as we've seen in League Cup and Nomads)
The Next Three are the SE winners. Question would be are they better than #8 thru #12 in gold? Do they jump directly from SE to Premier?
3. Pats (Picking up players from NHB and others.)
4. PSG (Strong team)
5. JUSA (Also strong team)

All in all, GS will choose who he feels will make the best competition, because rarely does a team get dropped from Premier. Once you're in, you're in for the next three years until you age out.

FUTBOL10PAPI

11-28-2005, 07:10 PM

HEY GUYS I HEARD THAT PATS AND ALSO PSG ARE GOING TO GET A BUNCH OF NEW PLAYERS........I DONT KNOW IF ITS TRUE OR JUST A JOKE BUT I THINK THEY HAVE TOO IN ORDER TO HANG WITH THE TOUGH TEAMS

Keepersrule

11-28-2005, 07:21 PM

Each of the SE teams will be getting new players, the only question is when, before or after nationals. Some of the teams are limited in the number of transfers they can bring on prior to Nationals, so they will have to add the bulk of their additions in the summer.

FUTBOL10PAPI

11-28-2005, 08:13 PM

Keepersrule

11-28-2005, 09:02 PM

THEY WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO GET THEM AFTER NATIONALS BUT IM SURE THEY ARE BEACUSE I THINK THAT EVERY GOLD PLAYER THAT ISNT ON THE FIRST 6 TEAMS THAT ARE GOING TO PREMIER WILL WANT TO GO TO PREMIER SO THEY FIND TEAMS THAT ARE GOING MOST LIKELY SILVER ELITE TEAMS THATS WHAT I THINK

Precisely, and that's why the "depends upon who performs well in Nationals" debate should be, IMHO, meaningless. Set an objective standard based upon performance during league play and then everyone can plan accordingly. Perform during league -win a second division bracket- and get promoted; not perform during league -finish in the bottom 4 of a 12 team first division bracket- and get relegated. Absent a meaningful play-in tournament (my favorite) this is the most transparent and fair way to proceed. If Blondies original post is correct, it looks like CSL has got it right this time. The teams that finished at the bottom of gold this year had their chance to prove they could compete with the top 8 teams. Now its the SE and Presidio champions turn. Free player movement (a cornerstone of the Amatuer Atheltic Act) renders the question of "will the SE teams be better than the #9-12 gold teams" moot as the rosters of next years teams will be significantly different for all these teams.

Blondie

11-28-2005, 09:47 PM

HEY GUYS I HEARD THAT PATS AND ALSO PSG ARE GOING TO GET A BUNCH OF NEW PLAYERS........I DONT KNOW IF ITS TRUE OR JUST A JOKE BUT I THINK THEY HAVE TOO IN ORDER TO HANG WITH THE TOUGH TEAMS

Pats just picked up two (transfers used?) from NHB, including the goalie. Also do you guys think that teams that already know they've made Premier will cut players at the end of the season to make their teams stronger?

Gold Coast

11-28-2005, 10:55 PM

I think it is safe to say that the top 8 Gold teams will be Premier next year since the bracket should contain 12 teams. If they are going to make it an 8 team bracket, the ridiculous nature of discussions of bringing up 3 Silver Elite teams is moot. Would you cut out finishers 6-8 to bring up the Silver Elite teams? No.
The question is could you drop places 9-12 in Gold for SEW/SES/SEN #1. What did they prove? They proved they could win SE brackets. In 2004, SEN #1 Aztec FC (now Manchester) took second place in the National's qualifier (placing higher than EVERY team in Gold, beaten in final by Nomads); SES #1 (Cypress) made R8 in League Cup and R16 (I think; maybe R8) in the National's qualifier. These two teams proved they could compete against Gold teams when they met head to head with their regular rosters.
How did 2005 SE Champions perform in League Cup? SEW #1 JUSA was eliminated in pool play. SES #1 Pateadores was eliminated in R32 3-0 by the #10 Gold team. SEN #1 PSG beat a bronze team in R32, and was beaten 2-0 by Gold #5. Four SE teams made it to R16 and all were eliminated by Gold teams. OYSA was the only Gold team eliminated by a SE team.
How did the Gold teams fare? R8 in League Cup was solid Gold, as would be expected. The balance in the bracket was demonstrated as #8 Del Mar beat #2 SoCal and #10 Fusion beat #5 Samba and #5 Celtics. Outside of the excellent blowout games by Arsenal, all inter-Gold games were close except for the 4-1 defeat of Samba by Fusion.
To say at this point that any of the top 12 Gold teams are out of Premier is ludicrous. If #12 Gold makes the final of National's qualifier (like 2004 SEN #1 Aztec/Manchester, who was eliminated in Pool Play in 2004 League Cup), do you think they would not be considered? How about if they made R4? R8? Where do you draw the line? Premier should be on the basis of competitive teams. On the basis of numbers right now, the SE teams are not competitive with the Golds as evidenced by League Cup results: at the end of 2005 season the record of all Silver Elite teams vs. ANY Gold team in League Cup was 1-8.
You must also consider the fact that Gold was 14 teams this year (a new high) and that there were three SE brackets in 2005; in the past there were generally two SE brackets and these have had 12 teams each at times. Just because there are three SE brackets, do three teams get advanced? If there were two brackets of 12 in SE (as in 2003), you wouldn't even be considering advancing 3 teams. Why not keep the bracket at 14 if these SE teams deserve it so much and drop the bottom of Gold like they did last year?
The argument that there is player movement to SE teams in various areas really means little; Gold teams will also be getting stronger across the board. The argument that a team has picked up "quality players" has never meant anything at "appeals time", nor has tournament competition other than League and National Cup (if you don't believe that, just look at BU16 Bayern, a great tournament team, who may now finally reach Premier). That is why a last look will occur at National Cup, where traditionally teams that have not placed high in a bracket get a look. This time, however, it should be the Silver Elite teams trying to prove they belong - because they didn't show much in League Cup against the Gold teams.
The jump from Silver Elite to Premier is a TWO bracket jump - it should be a jump for proven competitors. R16 at best in League Cup? 1-8 cumulative against Gold teams? We should be seeing more from SE to be considered for Premier.

Blondie

11-29-2005, 08:12 AM

I think it is safe to say that the top 8 Gold teams will be Premier next year since the bracket should contain 12 teams. If they are going to make it an 8 team bracket, the ridiculous nature of discussions of bringing up 3 Silver Elite teams is moot. Would you cut out finishers 6-8 to bring up the Silver Elite teams? No.
The question is could you drop places 9-12 in Gold for SEW/SES/SEN #1. What did they prove? They proved they could win SE brackets. In 2004, SEN #1 Aztec FC (now Manchester) took second place in the National's qualifier (placing higher than EVERY team in Gold, beaten in final by Nomads); SES #1 (Cypress) made R8 in League Cup and R16 (I think; maybe R8) in the National's qualifier. These two teams proved they could compete against Gold teams when they met head to head with their regular rosters.
How did 2005 SE Champions perform in League Cup? SEW #1 JUSA was eliminated in pool play. SES #1 Pateadores was eliminated in R32 3-0 by the #10 Gold team. SEN #1 PSG beat a bronze team in R32, and was beaten 2-0 by Gold #5. Four SE teams made it to R16 and all were eliminated by Gold teams. OYSA was the only Gold team eliminated by an SE team.
How did the Gold teams fare? R8 was solid Gold., as would be expected. The balance in the bracket was demonstrated as #8 Del Mar beat #2 SoCal and #10 Fusion beat #5 Samba and #5 Celtics. Outside of the excellent blowout games by Arsenal, all inter-Gold games were close except for the 4-1 defeat of Samba by Fusion.
To say at this point that any of the top 12 Gold teams are out of Premier is ludicrous. If #12 Gold makes the final of National's qualifier (like 2004 SEN #1 Aztec/Manchester, who was eliminated in Pool Play in 2004 League Cup), do you think they would not be considered? How about if they made R4? R8? Where do you draw the line? Premier should be on the basis of competitive teams. On the basis of numbers right now, the SE teams are not competitive with the Golds as evidenced by League Cup results: at the end of 2005 season the record of all Silver Elite teams vs. ANY Gold team in League Cup was 1-8.
You must also consider the fact that Gold was 14 teams this year (a new high) and that there were three SE brackets in 2005; in the past there were generally two SE brackets and these have had 12 teams each at times. Just because there are three SE brackets, do three terams get advanced? If there were two brackets of 12 in SE (as in 2003), you wouldn't even be considering advancing 3 teams. Why not keep the bracket at 14 if these SE teams deserve it so much and drop the bottom of Gold like they did last year?
The arguement that there is player movement to SE teams in various areas really means little; Gold teams will also be getting stronger across the board. The arguement that a team has picked up "quality players" has never meant anything at "appeals time", nor has tournament competition other than League and National Cup (if you don't believe that, just look at BU16 Bayern, a great tournament team, who may now finally reach Premier). That is why a last look will occur at National Cup, where traditionally teams that have not placed high in a bracket get a look. This time, however, it should be the Silver Elite teams trying to prove they belong - because they didn't show much in League Cup against the Gold teams.
The jump from Silver Elite to Premier is a TWO bracket jump - it should be a jump for proven competitors. R16 at best in League Cup? 1-8 against Gold teams? We should be seeing more.

Good Post. Very well, thought out, strong argument. Good job!

justdoit

11-29-2005, 09:15 AM

You know me Keepersrule, I am a tease! I do not think the teams will be officially announced BEFORE Nationals. However, I was told that the top 4-5 teams in CSL have already been told they are in based on their league standings. As your team is a SE team, I would "assume" that GS will wait until Nationals to see how ALL the SE teams do compared to the bottom 6 of gold to determine who goes where. I know, I know you probably will disagree with me on that one, but it makes more sense to compare the bottom six with the top SE's. I still agree with one of your previous postings that CSL should have a play-off after players are tied to their respective teams. That would be the fair thing to do.

I agree there will be significant player movement. There already is. NHB just lost 3 players in the last couple of weeks. Heard two went to Pats, including goalie, and one is probably coming to our team.

Where did this Oranje team come from? City? Team makeup?

One thing to consider is the type of quality players NHB lost to Pats.....are they really going to make an impact on that team to go to Premier?? SE teams better get gold caliber players to be able to compete.

Gold Coast

11-29-2005, 02:51 PM

Blondie, please excuse my typos and spelling. I changed my post a little bit on review today. Thanks for the compliment.

Biz

11-29-2005, 04:23 PM

The history is interesting. I think the key issue is the competitive nature of the gold bracket at this age. Is it more competitive than prior years? I hear that every now and then. Looking at the rankings from the season this year, it would be difficult to choose the top 8 as there is little difference between 8 & 9 (Del Mar and Palmdale). Then we take a significant dip to 10 - 12. Again, tough to differentiate here as they all have almost the same points. The last 2 are very low, with 10 and 11 losses from each team. So, if they feel that this is a strong group, they may take 9 or even 12.

Gold Coast

11-29-2005, 05:24 PM

When you talk about competitive, you need to look at Gold vs Silver Elite and Gold vs Gold. Gold vs Silver Elite, as noted above, is no question. SE teams had 9 chances against Gold teams in League Cup and lost 8. This may change in National Cup; my guess is that one SE bracket champion team (I don't know which one for obvious reasons - new players, luck of the scheduling, etc.) will do very well (R8 or better) and would be considered for Premier. I doubt that if any of the SE teams hit Barcelona/SoCal/Arsenal etc. in R32 they will get far. The Presidio Champion would probably have to show something also; Del Mar is from San Diego and they well could be considered the representative of the area, especially with their runner up status in League Cup.
When you talk about Gold vs Gold, the season could be stratified a couple ways. The top teams won against all comers, top and bottom. That's the top tier. The middle teams were less consistent and the bottom two were out of the competition. For example, Del Mar struggled at the beginning, but came on strong at the end (beating Samba in League and Flyers and SoCal in Cup). Fusion starts by tying SoCal, and losing to Samba/Arsenal/ Barcelona each by one goal; ends by beating Strikers and Palmdale, tying Flyers in League then beating Samba and Celtic in Cup. If Fusion made R4 and Del Mar R2 in League Cup and beat these teams along the way, how could they not be considered competititive?
It will be a tough call. Last season CFC and Celtics should have been relegated down, but strong finishes in League and National Cup proved them competitive and instead of relegation the bracket was expanded to 14 (NHB and Brazil out; top 10 left in with top 4 SE added).
Competitiveness, in my mind, is measured by your ability to compete against the upper part of the bracket; if you can win or tie or lose competitively on a consistent basis with the better teams you belong. If you can never beat or tie a few of the teams who finished above you, you aren't competitive. SE is not competitive with Gold at this point; most Gold teams are competitive with one another and each team has its own record to defend.
As for playoffs to determine the Premier spots, not a bad idea in a lot of ways. I guess it already has happened somewhat in League Cup:
Gold #5 Flyers 2-----SEN #1 PSG 0
Gold #10 Fusion 3----SES #1 Pats 0

Biz

11-30-2005, 09:08 AM

Great reply. I had the opportunity to see a couple of the top SE teams play in League Cup and I must say that I was surprised at how weak they looked. I think they would have a difficult time competing in Premier. There does seem to be a top tier of teams - (10 or so) and then a drop in quality.

Gold Coast

12-01-2005, 07:55 AM

Precisely, and that's why the "depends upon who performs well in Nationals" debate should be, IMHO, meaningless. Set an objective standard based upon performance during league play and then everyone can plan accordingly. Perform during league -win a second division bracket- and get promoted; not perform during league -finish in the bottom 4 of a 12 team first division bracket- and get relegated. Absent a meaningful play-in tournament (my favorite) this is the most transparent and fair way to proceed. If Blondies original post is correct, it looks like CSL has got it right this time. The teams that finished at the bottom of gold this year had their chance to prove they could compete with the top 8 teams. Now its the SE and Presidio champions turn. Free player movement (a cornerstone of the Amatuer Atheltic Act) renders the question of "will the SE teams be better than the #9-12 gold teams" moot as the rosters of next years teams will be significantly different for all these teams.
Win a second division bracket - get promoted - but up one bracket; not from SE to Premier. For SE, the "up" is to Gold. Dropping the bottom 4 teams from Gold this year leaves 10 teams (there were 14 in the bracket). To drop 6 teams to make room for 3 SE (and one Presidio team - I don't know what to say about this team) doesn't make sense when none of the SE Champions could beat a Gold team and the combined SE record vs Gold is 1-8 in League Cup (if I counted correctly). This is important because the SE/Gold teams had their full regular rosters, were at end of season and had equal preparation in a format in which winning was important to every team. The relative strength of the Gold teams and brackets is readily evident; if SE was competitive with Gold you would have expected a more balanced record in League Cup. It must be remembered SE to Premier is a two bracket jump and you should have to show your competitive. SE needs to "show us the money".

him

12-03-2005, 08:52 AM

Win a second division bracket - get promoted - but up one bracket; not from SE to Premier. For SE, the "up" is to Gold. Dropping the bottom 4 teams from Gold this year leaves 10 teams (there were 14 in the bracket). To drop 6 teams to make room for 3 SE (and one Presidio team - I don't know what to say about this team) doesn't make sense when none of the SE Champions could beat a Gold team and the combined SE record vs Gold is 1-8 in League Cup (if I counted correctly). This is important because the SE/Gold teams had their full regular rosters, were at end of season and had equal preparation in a format in which winning was important to every team. The relative strength of the Gold teams and brackets is readily evident; if SE was competitive with Gold you would have expected a more balanced record in League Cup. It must be remembered SE to Premier is a two bracket jump and you should have to show your competitive. SE needs to "show us the money".
ok heres what i dont get:
why would a silver elite team come up when people have been fighting to go to premier since day one. when a silver elite team gets to skip gold then go to premier doesnt add up hell if i new that we would of took the team down and killed everyone in silver elite. they need to prove themselves.

it doesnt seem fair to the better players.

Academy Fan

12-03-2005, 01:04 PM

him

12-03-2005, 02:53 PM

i respect your post.

and we could argue about if they deserve to come up or stay down so i might as well end with saying.

"may the best man win"

Defense Wins

12-03-2005, 06:07 PM

the teams that SHOULD be in premier next year will be
barca
arsenal
strikers
flyers
samba
celtic
pats

i didnt include so cal because they are supposally going to the champions league.

does anyone see who i am missing? that should be there
Yes, how about FC Bayren. Second in league cup!!!!!!!

Twobit

12-03-2005, 08:24 PM

Yes, how about FC Bayren. Second in league cup!!!!!!!

Not in BU15. You have the wrong year. The ages are for next year.

him

12-03-2005, 09:15 PM

fc bayern played rampage in the to be u17 bracket

Gold Coast

12-04-2005, 04:59 PM

OK, look at it this way:

Premier is just a "glorified" Gold division next year. The top X many teams from Gold go to the Polo Fields and play each other plus a few new teams.

Who will fill the spots left by those advancing Gold teams? The silver Elite teams, that's who. Would it be fair to those teams to win their bracket only to advance to the newly weakend Gold division and face the same old teams??

you can look at it like this; all brackets just move up a notch and change names. I say, let the Silver Elite teams have their shot at Gold. If they train hard and recruit well then they will stay around, if not then they'll move down and make room for somebody else.

Just my $0.02

It would be fair to win the Silver Elite bracket and move up one bracket - because a one bracket move was all that was earned. Gold next year could easily be the bottom two of Gold plus the #1 and #2 of Silver Elite from each bracket. They would not be facing the "same old teams" - the #1 from SEN only faced the #2 SEN team last season - they did not meet SES #1/2, SEW #1/2 or Gold #13/14.
One of the SE teams may have a great National Cup and be considered for Premier, but otherwise the 2006 Gold bracket would be comprised of the same format that has gone on for years.
I agree with the other argument presented - why struggle for years to stay/get into Gold and suddenly not be in Premier when you could have dropped into Silver Elite for a season and jump over a bunch (up to six in this case) Gold teams ?

whiteboy

02-28-2006, 07:49 PM

psg they had the best record in all of silver elite and they beat barcelona

PremierU16

02-28-2006, 09:23 PM

psg they had the best record in all of silver elite and they beat barcelona

This is current BU15 going on BU16 Premier. When did PSG beat Barca?

Keepersrule

03-01-2006, 09:19 AM

psg they had the best record in all of silver elite and they beat barcelona

JUSA had the same record as PSG 11-1-2. How can you claim the "best record in all of silver elite"?

If CSL is not going to have a playoff for Premier then PSG, JUSA and Pateodores should be invited to Premier. BU-15 fan is correct, adding the Premier league at U16 has the net effect of moving each bracket forward. None of these teams will have the same rosters next year that they had for league or National Cup this year. The teams that will be promoted to Premier will pick up quality players and the teams that will be relegated to Gold will lose quality players. Trying to draw comparisons and justify placement for next year between those teams on the basis of this past year's performance is meaningless.

Every year the debate is the same but the end result does not seem to change. The basic bracketing rule seems to be rather simple: if your team ends up at the bottom of a bracket, you will be relegated. Don't like that rule, then play better and don't end up at the bottom.

Blondie

03-01-2006, 09:36 AM

I've heard that Premier this next season at BU-16 will be just 8 teams. I'm sure that is not set in stone, but it's pretty strong that the "powers that be" will keep it at 8 like they have most years. Throw into the mix the possibility of the So Cal/Samba merger. How will that effect the Premier bracketing next year? I strongly believe that how the majority of the teams in question do during Nationals will also determine GS's decision of who's in and who's not.

Premier

03-01-2006, 11:51 AM

Keepersrule

03-01-2006, 12:12 PM

I hope that is true. I think premier would look like this. Assuming Samba is no more.

Barca
So Cal
Arsenal
ISC
Flyers
Celtic

Playoff with 2 advancing...Del Mar, Palmdale, PSG, Pats

Why the disrespect for JUSA? They won their SE bracket with their best player sitting out nearly the entire season with a broken foot.

Phantom

03-01-2006, 02:08 PM

Do disrespect to JUSA but they failed to make it out of their group during league cup. As a matter of fact only West Coast out of SEW won their group.

Premier

03-01-2006, 02:54 PM

Why the disrespect for JUSA? They won their SE bracket with their best player sitting out nearly the entire season with a broken foot.

No disrespect...I didn't even know there was a SEW bracket. Any first place Silver Elite team should at least be in a playoff.

whiteboy

03-01-2006, 06:12 PM

Why the disrespect for JUSA? They won their SE bracket with their best player sitting out nearly the entire season with a broken foot.

Jusa had like the easiest bracket for silver elite. We are not trying to disrepect them just pointing out the facts. That is correct that they didn't make out of their bracket in league cup

him

03-04-2006, 09:24 AM

Keepersrule

03-04-2006, 05:33 PM

I know we have discussed this before but why would a sew,sen,or ses champion be able to jump past the gold level and go straight to premier??

what makes that team feel like that they are good enough to compete with the big teams?

if i was a mediocre gold team and didnt get to go to premier and silver elite team got to go to premier rather than them. that doesnt make sense. i understand that they are the "champions" but look who they play.

If anyone has a legit reason why they should jump up to premier i am completely open to it.

thank you

I know it is a difficult concept to understand, but as BU-15 Fan has said, moving from SE to Premier at U16 is NOT a jump past gold. Consider this, if there were no Premier at U16, the bottom U15 gold teams would be relegated to U16 Silver Elite and the U15 Silver Elite winners would be promoted to U16 gold. Just like what happened at U14, U13 and U12. That's what promotion and relegation is all about. Go check the CSL bracketing policy, they intend to promote and relegate at least two teams from each bracket every year.

The only difference at U16 is that instead of calling the top bracket "gold" it is called "Premier." Silver Elite becomes Gold, etc. If what CSL has done in the past is a good indication of what they will do in the future, then the BU15 Silver Elite winners will be promoted to BU16 Premier. This has happened the last three years.

Although I generally find Blondies sources to be impecable, my source indicates that all Premiere divisions will have 12 teams. This is not unusual, at least for U16. Last year there were 12 teams in U16 Premier, as there were in 2001 and 2000. In 2004 and 2003 there were 8. There were 10 in 2002. It appears that the 12 team divisions will also come with a more objective promotion/relegation policy that, if not published, will at least be communicated to all. The descretionary wild card will be the San Diego teams. Could this be the result of a compromise which ended the Champions League uprising?

For me, the only fair way to resolve this controversy would be for a playoff, for which I have advocated before. Regardless, CSL has chosen not to implement such an idea. We are thus left to deal with the situation at hand.

One last comment, Mr. Him. I would agree with your and your friends positions regarding the promotion of the Top Silver Elite teams over the bottom gold teams if the rosters of the teams were frozen from year to year. This is not the case. At the beginning of each year, players move from team to team and the soon to be promoted teams will attract quality talent and the soon to be relegated teams will lose quality talent. It is just the way the system is. Unfortunately, it renders comparison's between teams somewhat meaningless at worst and a very difficult practice at best.

him

03-05-2006, 06:09 AM

thank you keepers rule

i fully understand what you are saying when you say they do not skip gold they just move up like they have in the past but now its called premier v.s. calling it gold.

Twobit

03-05-2006, 02:53 PM

thank you keepers rule

i fully understand what you are saying when you say they do not skip gold they just move up like they have in the past but now its called premier v.s. calling it gold.

If Premier for BU16 were to be 14 teams and the teams from Presidio were not also competing for spots, then I would absolutely agree with Keepersrule. Knocking out the bottom three Gold team and adding the 3 winners of SE to the preliminary Gold bracket would be just about automatic.

Even maintaining 14 teams and excluding Presidio would not guarantee the 3 SE champions a spot in a "Gold" final bracket. This is because in the "normal" transfer to Gold, there is the right to challenge a team. I believe some bottom Gold teams beat some SE champions in league cup. That seems to me to be a pretty good basis for a challenge.

But Coast does not just create a new top bracket and call in Premier in place of Gold, it creates a bracket of top teams who are all the most competive in Southern California. The selection of Premiew teams is a final decision that cannot be challenged. There is no right to be Premier just because a team won SE.

Similary, there is no right to be in Premier just because a team finished in the top 8 in Gold. Coast may decide for example that the top 6 gold teams are in a different class than the remaining gold teams and add a team from Presidio and a SE team.

On the other hand, if at State Cup, the bottom gold teams perform well, Coast may decide on a 12 team bracket and even then may not take all 3 SE champions.

Also I do not agree with Keepersrule that the fact that rosters can change is a basis for promoting top SE teams. That type of reasoning focuses on the name of a team and not the players. Representatives of Coast have said in the past, the addition of new players can be a positive or a negative. You do not know how they will play together until you see them play together. The big test is going to be Nationals.

I believe that, as usual, Coast will do a good job of bracketing a Premier group that represents the best of Southern California, whether that bracket is 8 teams, 10 teams or 12. Could they make a mistake -- Sure. But I do not think their tenative plans are anything more than tentative.

Nationals will mean a lot, but if it is really close, there could be a playoff. Coast has used a playoff before.

whiteboy

03-05-2006, 07:05 PM

I think whether or not a silve elite team will move up or not will be determined in nationals or in the upcoming tournaments. Those gold that didn't do good in the bracket have already gotten there chance, so why not give it to a silver elite team who shows, in the tournaments ahead, that they can hang with the premier teams.

Gold Coast

03-07-2006, 07:06 PM

PREMIER PLAYOFFS - my predictions (or maybe what I saw):

FIRST ROUND - Gold#1 Barcelona "passes" on the tournament; Golds #2,3,4 given a well earned "light schedule" to pass into the next round; SEN #1 PSG and SES #3 Bayern also, by luck of the draw, get an easy pass to the next round. Unfortunately, some the challengers to "jump" to Premier from Silver Elite (ie.SEN #2 Monarcas, SEN #3 Blast, SEW #1 JUSA, SEW #3 PVSC) never got a chance to claim Premier because they couldn't get out of Pool play !! (4/9 top 3 SE teams could not get out of Pool; all Golds made it).The rest of them had to battle it out; as expected, the Gold teams tied at 5th get a little challenge, but persevere:

Round of 32

Gold #5 Flyers - 1
SES #6 PS Real Madrid -0

Gold #5 Celtics - 3
SEN #8 AVSFC - 0

Gold #5 Samba - 2
SEN #7 CVU - 0

Now it gets tougher with the next level of Gold being forced to show what they got against some of the top Silver Elite teams:

Gold #8 Del Mar - 1
SEW #2 West Coast - 0; #2 SE got a chance to show Premier "level" ...lost

Gold #9 Palmdale - 0
Silver #1 Chivas - 5 !!!! upset !!!!

Gold #10 Fusion - 3
SES #1 Pats - 0; #1 SE got a chance to show Premier "level"...lost

Gold #10 Sting - 4; Luck of the Draw !! No challenge, got a pass to R16
Silver #2 Bakersfield - 0

Gold #12 OYSA - 0
SES #2 Southwest - 3 !!! A SES #2 shows it can compete/beat a "#12" Gold; could this mean they could compete with a better "gold" ????

Gold #13 Italia - 4; Luck of the Draw !! No challenge, got a pass to R16
Silver #1 Flyers - 0

Gold #14 Corona - 5; Luck of the Draw !! No challenge, got a pass to R16
Bronze Pomona - 0

Round of 16 - Three SE teams left, two because they played Bronze teams in R32. SES #2 Southwest beats a #12 Gold. At this point "only" 11/13 Gold teams are left, while 3/9 "top 3" SE teams are here. Who should go to Premier? Here is the big chance to "show us the money" !!

Gold #2 SoCal - 5
SES #4 Corona - 2

Gold #3 Arsenal - 2
SES #3 Bayern - 1; Arsenal still asleep

Gold #4 Strikers - 2
SES #2 Southwest - 1

Gold #5 Flyers - 2
SEN #1 PSG - 0; Another #1 SE team fails to score a goal against a Gold team

Gold #5 Celtics - 3
Gold #13 Italia - 1; Bad luck for Italia on this draw !!

Gold #5 Samba - 1
Gold #10 Fusion - 4; Fusion plays to its potential

Gold #8 Del Mar - 1; Defense, always the defense !!
Gold #14 Corona - 0

Gold #10 Sting - 2; Good luck on the draw by Sting !!!
Silver #1 Chivas - 1

Round of 8 - All Gold !! Where are the SE challengers for Premier ???

Gold #2 So Cal - 1
Gold #5 Strikers - 0; Another close game among Golds

Gold #3 Arsenal - 5
Gold #10 Sting - 1; Sting finally gets a challenge......

Gold #5 Celtics - 0
Gold #10 Fusion - 1; Plays again to its potential

Gold #8 Del Mar - 2; Defense again !!!!
Gold #5 Flyers - 1

Round of 4 - All Gold !! Is there not a single challenger to Premier from SE ?? Note that the #8 and #10 teams in the regular season have beaten Gold teams who finished above them, proof of the "balance" in this bracket....

Gold #3 Arsenal - 5
Gold #10 Fusion - 2; The dream ends

Gold #8 Del Mar 2 ; The defense again !!!
Gold #2 So Cal 1

Finals

Gold #3 Arsenal - 5
Gold #8 DelMar - 1; The defense rests

So the Premier bracket playoffs resulted in NO Silver Elite teams in the final 8, and three Silver Elite teams in the final 16 - all beaten by Gold teams.

PREMIER NEXT YEAR - Gold teams 1-10 at least, one deserving Silver Elite and San Diego team IF they do well in Nationals (by beating almost every Gold team they face to prove they belong !!!). The balance in Gold is evidenced by the fact that in the end, the #8 and #10 teams could compete with the top half of the bracket and reach R4. The dilution of SE into three brackets may have weakened the division, resulting in almost half of the top teams being eliminated in pool and all of them losing at R16 level. If Silver Elite is competitive with the bottom of Gold, you would have expected more.

I await National Cup to pick my 12, but right now there are no Silver Elites in it. In prior years, the top Silver Elites always placed high in League and/or National Cup - they proved they were competitive. I haven't seen it yet.

whiteboy

03-07-2006, 08:07 PM

PREMIER PLAYOFFS - my predictions (or maybe what I saw):

FIRST ROUND - Gold#1 Barcelona "passes" on the tournament; Golds #2,3,4 given a well earned "light schedule" to pass into the next round; SEN #1 PSG and SES #3 Bayern also, by luck of the draw, get an easy pass to the next round. Unfortunately, some the challengers to "jump" to Premier from Silver Elite (ie.SEN #2 Monarcas, SEN #3 Blast, SEW #1 JUSA, SEW #3 PVSC) never got a chance to claim Premier because they couldn't get out of Pool play !! (4/9 top 3 SE teams could not get out of Pool; all Golds made it).The rest of them had to battle it out; as expected, the Gold teams tied at 5th get a little challenge, but persevere:

Round of 32

Gold #5 Flyers - 1
SES #6 PS Real Madrid -0

Gold #5 Celtics - 3
SEN #8 AVSFC - 0

Gold #5 Samba - 2
SEN #7 CVU - 0

Now it gets tougher with the next level of Gold being forced to show what they got against some of the top Silver Elite teams:

Gold #8 Del Mar - 1
SEW #2 West Coast - 0 #2 SE got a chance to show Premier "level" ...lost

Gold #9 Palmdale - 0
Silver #1 Chivas - 5 !!!! upset !!!!

Gold #10 Fusion - 3
SES #1 Pats - 0 #1 SE got a chance to show Premier "level"...lost

Gold #10 Sting - 4 Luck of the Draw !! No challenge, got a pass to R16
Silver #2 Bakersfield - 0

Gold #12 OYSA - 0
SES #2 Southwest - 3 !!! A SES #2 shows it can compete/beat a "#12" Gold; could this mean they could compete with a better "gold" ????

Gold #13 Italia - 4 Luck of the Draw !! No challenge, got a pass to R16
Silver #1 Flyers - 0

Gold #14 Corona - 5 Luck of the Draw !! No challenge, got a pass to R16
Bronze Pomona - 0

Round of 16 - Three SE teams left, two because they played Bronze teams in R32. SES #2 Southwest beats a #12 Gold. At this point "only" 11/13 Gold teams are left, while 3/9 "top 3" SE teams are here. Who should go to Premier? Here is the big chance to "show us the money" !!

Gold #2 SoCal - 5
SES #4 Corona - 2

Gold #3 Arsenal - 2
SES #3 Bayern - 1 Arsenal still asleep

Gold #4 Strikers - 2
SES #2 Southwest - 1

Gold #5 Flyers - 2
SEN #1 PSG - 0 Another #1 SE team fails to score a goal against a Gold team

Gold #5 Celtics - 3
Gold #13 Italia - 1 Bad luck for Italia on this draw !!

Gold #5 Samba - 1
Gold #10 Fusion - 4 Fusion plays to its potential

Gold #8 Del Mar - 1 Defence, always the defence !!
Gold #14 Corona - 0

Gold #10 Sting - 2 Good luck on the draw by Sting !!!
Silver #1 Chivas - 1

Round of 8 - All Gold !! Where are the SE challengers for Premier ???

Gold #2 So Cal - 1
Gold #5 Strikers - 0 Another close game among Golds

Gold #3 Arsenal - 5
Gold #10 Sting - 1 Sting finally gets a challenge......

Gold #5 Celtics - 0
Gold #10 Fusion - 1 Plays again to its potential

Gold #8 Del Mar - 2 Defence again !!!!
Gold #5 Flyers - 1

Round of 4 - All Gold !! Is there not a single challenger to Premier from SE ?? Note that the #8 and #10 teams in the regular season have beaten Gold teams who finished above them, proof of the "balance" in this bracket....

Gold #3 Arsenal - 5
Gold #10 Fusion - 2 The dream ends

Gold #8 Del Mar 2 The defence again !!!
Gold #2 So Cal 1

Finals

Gold #3 Arsenal - 5
Gold #8 DelMar - 1 The defence rests

So the Premier bracket playoffs resulted in NO Silver Elite teams in the final 8, and three Silver Elite teams in the final 16 - all beaten by Gold teams.

PREMIER NEXT YEAR - Gold teams 1-10 at least, one deserving Silver Elite and San Diego team IF they do well in Nationals (by beating almost every Gold team they face to prove they belong !!!). The balance in Gold is evidenced by the fact that in the end, the #8 and #10 teams could compete with the top half of the bracket and reach R4. The dilution of SE into three brackets may have weakened the division, resulting in almost half of the top teams being eliminated in pool and all of them losing at R16 level. If Silver Elite is competitive with the bottom of Gold, you would have expected more.

I await National Cup to pick my 12, but right now ther are no Silver Elites in it. In prior years, the top Silver Elites always placed high in League and/or National Cup - they proved they were competitive. I haven't seen it yet.

I totaly agree with you. Nationals is going to show who are the duds and who are the studs. I think if a silver elite team wants to make it to premier they got to show up a promised premier team. [great reply]

him

03-09-2006, 06:57 AM

Premier 06

03-09-2006, 08:51 PM

Now that Samba is out of the picture...the 12 teams I believe will be going to Premier (in order)

1. Barca
2. United
3. Arsenal
4. Strikers
5. Flyers
6. Celtic
7. Del Mar
8. Palmade??? whats going on over there?
9. Sting
10. Fusion
11. Pateadores
12. PSG or Jusa

The Samba players would be a good catch for any of the teams, except the already stacked teams-Barca, United, Arsenal

chea ur boi

03-09-2006, 10:14 PM

celtics only has like about 9 players now i heard their spliting off ,palmdale is horrible they lost to a silver team named chivas jr usa 5-0,and pats arent even that good!dude where you get that from?

wats going on

03-09-2006, 10:34 PM

Why are all these GREAT teams splitting. First you had Samba who only has about 5 players left and now Celtic with 9?

Soccer Fan U15

03-09-2006, 10:38 PM

As far as Celtic "splitting up", I think that is a rumor. Samba, on the other hand, is a reality. I heard a few of them are trying for Flyers. This is a great oppurtunity for good teams around Samba (Blast, maybe even Fusion who beat Samba 4 to 1 in LC) to pick these players up and improve their team to compete with powerhouses like SCU and Barca.

QualitySoccer1

03-11-2006, 11:13 PM

We have already picked up a Samba player recently, and just today, I saw another one watching our game on our sideline and talking to our coach!

futbolero

03-12-2006, 03:28 PM

heard that samba keeper is looking around for team .He would be a great addition to any team.

*Unregistered's "finest"*

03-12-2006, 05:12 PM

yeah i heard that samba players were looking for spots on teams like Fusion,Flyers,Sting,Blast,Bakersfield,nd a couple more.....

SoccerDadd

03-12-2006, 06:38 PM

Which Samba player would want to go to a Bakersfield team?!?!

premiertime21

03-13-2006, 03:07 PM

ooo i know one kid who might be trying out for bakersfield he came to a flyers practice .... he said he lives all the way out in bakersfield

him

03-18-2006, 06:23 PM

does anyone know any scores or what happened today at nomads?grouphug

Keepersrule

03-19-2006, 06:40 AM

http://www.nomadssoccer.org/tournaments/CS2006/BU15P.htm

asdfasdf

03-20-2006, 02:06 PM

so what do you guys think about psg? i hurd a mess of them left to chivas jr. usa?

bubu

03-20-2006, 02:17 PM

samson2001

03-20-2006, 02:20 PM

i hurd something lik that they got a new forward some mids and a goalie mi friend played them in celtic and said he dint see alot of the same guys.... i dk bout chivas not concerned bout them.

*Unregistered'z finest*

03-20-2006, 02:23 PM

so what do you guys think about psg? i hurd a mess of them left to chivas jr. usa?
hmmm..maybe im wrong but i didnt hear anythin about a mess of them going but just 1 player (a defender)and thatz it not a mess of em'....

him

03-20-2006, 03:13 PM

samson2001

03-20-2006, 04:12 PM

what is the website for national scheduale

*Unregistered'z finest*

03-20-2006, 04:56 PM

who is really worried about those two teams except GOLD teams.

the quality teams are going to premier.

chivas jr. will be in gold...

dont know about psg.

the main question is how do you all like the schedule for nationals????
hmmm since when is chivas jr usa even considered 2 be in gold...can some1 plz tell me when this happened cuz i sure didnt know anything about this...and speaking of teams considered 2 be in gold what about those teams that were right behind psg,jusa,or pateadores like southwest sc,monarcas usa,valley united blast, or fc bayern. what if they produce good results against the teams they need 2 beat?what happens then??

him

03-20-2006, 05:59 PM

chivas jr.

your right i dont know if they will be in gold for sure. i was just predicting.

Premier

03-20-2006, 06:31 PM

what is the website for national scheduale

http://2006nco-cysa.affinitysoccer.com/tour/public/info/schedule_results2.asp?sessionguid=&flightguid={CD36795A-16AE-4351-9988-8C755A809638}&tournamentguid={FBCE3137-0878-46E6-A907-1F42C6299CA2}

Premeir

03-20-2006, 06:40 PM

http://2006nco-cysa.affinitysoccer.com/tour/public/info/schedule_results2.asp?sessionguid=&flightguid={CD36795A-16AE-4351-9988-8C755A809638}&tournamentguid={FBCE3137-0878-46E6-A907-1F42C6299CA2}

Try this

http://2006nco-cysa.affinitysoccer.com/tour/public/info/accepted_list.asp?sessionguid=&tournamentguid=%7BFBCE3137-0878-46E6-A907-1F42C6299CA2%7D

samson2001

03-20-2006, 07:40 PM

jusa sucks bad i mean they r horrable that whole entire bracket was a waste they didnt make it out of pool and lost to a bronze team terribly not to mention their last place team couldnt even have gotton top 5 in bronze....psssh please jusa is lucky if they win a single game in gold.

profile detective

03-21-2006, 03:59 PM

"opposite"
hispanic vs white??
female vs male??
we know you are a PSG parent!!!
tell me when to stop

be proud, no shame
glad to know your affiliation
good posts, by the way.

samson2001

03-21-2006, 05:10 PM

dude why dont u shut the hell up u think everyone is a parent from some damn team if ur gonna talk, talk about the thread. but if ur gonna talk shit get the hell off ur comp. and kick a ball around cuz im sure u suck.

profile detective

03-21-2006, 05:19 PM

ok ur right im sorry i think psg is an awesome team and im just jealous that they r good and our team sux

practice

03-21-2006, 09:27 PM

Where does PSG practice at?

????

03-21-2006, 10:02 PM

ok im not from psg or have nothing to do with them,im just goin to ask why are people talking about them a lot? they dont even know about this site or even comment in here ,im just saying people should stop posting bad things about teams like psg or chivas jr or i heard a bad comment about jusa too ,i mean they dont even know about here so maybe all the people that talk bad stuff about them should just go find something to do then just talk crap about other teams!

him

03-22-2006, 03:06 PM

well we have only heard negative stuff or what i have read on here is negative so theres nothing really pleasent to say about this team? im sorry ??????

? ? ? ? ? ?

03-22-2006, 05:52 PM

why do you guys say stuff about that team really. None of them have posted on this site that are from the team. Another person probobly has made the club look bad. This site wasn't mad to bag on or to brag about soccer. Is was ment to talk about soccer, that's it.

visitor

03-23-2006, 06:32 AM

Surf looked good in Nomads.......

Keepersrule

03-23-2006, 10:19 AM

How many guest players did Surf use at Nomads? Will they field the same team at Nationals? Seems like they have one team for tournaments and another for league play.

samson2001: Which team are you affiliated with? I'm sure JUSA would love to schedule a match to see if your play can back up your talk. Any time between now and Nationals would be fine.

SE Support

03-23-2006, 11:30 AM

samson2001: Which team are you affiliated with? I'm sure JUSA would love to schedule a match to see if your play can back up your talk. Any time between now and Nationals would be fine.[/QUOTE]

Keepersrule: Do not pay attention to these type of comments, this person/persons are getting behind a computer to discredit the 3 SE Champions (Pats, PSG, and JUSA) talking trash about them. Let them talk...

Hmmmmmm

03-23-2006, 02:23 PM

THE JUMP

03-23-2006, 02:52 PM

IN ORDER FOR A SE TEAM TO MAKE THE JUMP TO PRIMER FROM SE THEY HAVE TO HAVE DONE EXTREMELY WELL AT LEAGUE CUP AND OR NATIONAL. TAKE LAST YEARS MANCHESTER TEAM (AZTECS). THIS SO FAR CAN TO BE SAID FOR PSG OR JUSA.

question

03-23-2006, 04:08 PM

which silver elite team do you think has the best chance to go to premier as of right now b4 nationals? what do they have to get in nationals in order for them to be secured in premeir?

thanks.

Keepersrule

03-23-2006, 04:33 PM

Why would anybody from JUSA call any team out? Your league title should say SE Champs*. The * is because a team got disbanded in your league, you won by default. What you guys did at Nationals and League Cup is a true marker of your team against other good teams.
And what team do you represent?

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strongest attribute. samson2001 talked $h!t about Jusa, all I did was ask if he wanted to play. No one knows what team he is on or represents. If you want to defend him and his ad hominem attacks, be my guest. We'd rather settle it on the field mano a mano.

You want to add an * for every team that wins a bracket that had a team that got caught cheating, go right ahead. Make sure you tell that to Arsenal since they won gold two years ago when Brazil got busted. The OSC excuse is a joke, bottom line OSC couldn’t beat Jusa head to head, so your point is worthless. Jusa beat everyone else in their bracket, including NHB twice (once with only 9 players the entire second half). And they did so with their regional ODP player out all but the last two league (didn'd play league cup) matches with a broken foot.

Until they have a playoff for promotion, I’ll take the consistency of 10-12 weeks of league play over a one and done tournament as proof of a team’s quality.

League cup is a different story and while there are reasons for the result, it would only sound like Jusa was making excuses when there are none to be made. Would’ve loved to have played best of three, five or seven, at a neutral site but that was not possible. The early morning match against Flyers was all that mattered since the bracket was decided in Flyers favor before Jusa's next game. Flyers played extremely well on their home turf, JH sat some starters at the beginning of the match for disciplinary reasons and Flyers to their credit took advantage thereof to score on a break away in the first 5 minutes. Jusa still dominated possession and shots on goal and dented the post and crossbar several times but never the net. Jusa should have overcome the adversity but they did not. That happens in soccer and our hats are off to Flyers.

See you at Nationals or this weeks SoCal United tourney, good luck to everyone and I hope that everyone is able to play injury free. I'm certain this debate will last throughout the spring and summer, even well past the Premier league invites.

him

03-23-2006, 06:17 PM

keeps rule

when do we know when people are accepted into premier?

is there a deadline or specific date?

thank you

Keepersrule

03-23-2006, 09:48 PM

keeps rule

when do we know when people are accepted into premier?

is there a deadline or specific date?

thank you

Don't think there is a specific deadline, Coast kinda does its own thing when it wants to.

Last year they posted the team listing the first week of June. It'll be found on the CSL Premier Website: Click here: Coast Soccer Premier League (http://www.cslpremier.com/index.php?ct=news&aid=005)

There will still be plenty of time for player movement between the time when the teams are announced and league rosters are "frozen". And even more time for those who are out to complain about how unfair the process was and those who are in to brag about how hard they worked and how they earned their invite. I suspect the trash talk will be quite entertaining.

JMHO.

Unregistered100

03-23-2006, 10:18 PM

For Sure:

SoCal-all star team
Barca-great team with good chemistry
Arsenal-fast, skillful
ISC-fast, solid team
Del Mar-very solid
Flyers-solid (picking up few new players)

Probably:

Celtic-solid, but inconsistant at times, can beat anyone if really played to potential
Sting-skillful, good coach (few additions have been made)
Palmdale-good league result, plays with heart...haven't heard much out of them
Fusion-solid, proven that they can hang with the big boys (additions have been made)

Maybe:

PSG-SE champs in the best SE bracket imo, but don't thinnk they are ready
CFC-small, skillful, hardworking, always have been around with the top teams but seems to always finish bottom of bracket
VUBlast-skillful, won Celtic Cup (additions have been made)
Oranje-shown they can hang through tournaments
Jusa
Pats

Twobit

03-24-2006, 07:17 AM

If Premier is 8 teams, I agree with your For Sures will be in Premier. The Probablys and Maybes will have to battle at National Cup for the last two spots. I think any of the Probablys and Maybes could pull it together to finish on top of those secondary teams to claim the two remaining spots.

If substantially all of the Probablys and Maybes finish behind the For Sures, then I think Premier will be 8 teams. This will allow the other good teams to pull it together in gold for one more year and then try to go to Premier for U17. At that point, Premier could go to 10 or 12 teams to make room for new teams without having to drop any Premier team that does well, but just comes in last because someone has to.

On the other hand, if two or three Probablys and the Maybes finish ahead of the For Sures, then this is strong evidence that the top teams are closer together than some people care to believe. If this happens, I would expect at least a 10 team Premier and maybe a 12 team Premier.

There has been a tremendous amount of movement of players. The recent tournaments may not be good indications of ability as teams are trying new players and tactics. Like usual, there should be lots of surprises (but the teams who create the surprises will say they knew it all along).

Good Luck to All.

In the know

03-24-2006, 11:10 AM

Barcelona got Fusions best player,so Fusion better have added some palyers.

temo white

03-24-2006, 11:51 AM

just around

03-24-2006, 03:19 PM

barcalona got fusions best player.... ? i though necaxa got him....

and fusion i saw them play last week and beat south west 4-0 and lost to a silver elite team in pk's so they don't look so good

Mr. Dad

03-24-2006, 06:52 PM

Yes, I also saw Fusion and they did not look that strong. They have picked up a couple of quality players. I heard a few Samba players were looking to go there but that won't help them for Nationals because the roster freeze date has passed.

not true

03-25-2006, 02:41 PM

Blondie

03-25-2006, 02:52 PM

thats not true because since samba dropped from nationals before the roster freeze date all the samba players have until april 7th to find new teams and sign for national cup. They are no longer "cup tied" and so samba players will be able to play

You are correct. And I feel they all should have a chance to play. I feel bad their team broke up, and wish them luck in finding a good club/team to play for.

him

03-25-2006, 10:50 PM

so what the last few posts are saying is that:

samba wasnt in nationals so ....... the players are free to play with a team that they find?

but isnt there a roster freeze right now???

enlighten meworth2

Mr Mister

03-26-2006, 01:05 AM

The Samba players are allowed to play in Nationals with any team they would like if they sign up before April 7. There is a rule, however, that states that only five transfers can be made for National Cup. Since these players did participate in league in 2005 they are counted as transfers.

samson2001

03-26-2006, 06:55 PM

i would just like to congradulate Jusa in losing both of their games, getting last, and not advancing this weekend in socal united tourny what did i say...completely sucked. u forgot to mention that u guys lost to a bronze team in league cup so come on u can admit it....

Unregistered GUY

03-26-2006, 07:05 PM

OK SO OBIESLY SO CAL UNITED WON THEIR TOURNEY I WAS LOOKING AT THE SCORES AND WOW SO CAL IS AN ALL STAR TEAM BEATING THE BEST RANKED TEAM IN HAWAII 4-0 AND WINING THE FINAL 6-0 THATS INCREDIBLE NOW I CANT WAIT TILL THE TOP TEAMS FACE {ARSENAL,BARCELONA,SO.CAL} EACH OTHER WHAT A GAME THAT WOULD BE

him

03-27-2006, 05:58 AM

overall the tournament seemed sorta weak though.

visitor

03-30-2006, 08:58 AM

Premier is where it is at!
Many of you have seen Top Drawer editor/journalists at your games.
We need to keep this magazine going,
HELP WANTED please see Topdrawersoccer.com
the best writers are right here on our own socal sight, please spread the word about Top Drawer and see the sight today

him

04-03-2006, 02:33 PM

if 8 teams
socal
barca
arsenal
isc
flyers
samba ( if they have a team)
celtic
del mar

if 10
socal
barca
arsenal
isc
flyers
samba
celtic
del mar
pats
psg

if 12
socal
barca
arsenal
isc
flyers
samba
celtic
del mar
surf(that means two san diego teams)
pats
psg
jusa

feel free to rearrange and disagree.

Keepersrule

04-03-2006, 05:37 PM

him

04-03-2006, 05:58 PM

i didnt have an order im going from how they finished in league play.

Stop Already

04-03-2006, 10:26 PM

Samba is out and will not qualify so I think you need to rearrange. IMHO, I think Surf or Nomads might be good pick for a second SD team. Just curious, JUSA beats PSG 6-2 head to head in an 80 minute match over this past weekend (Albion beats them 5-0) and you still have PSG favored over JUSA and Albion. Why? Pats definitely looked excellent.
Enough of your positioning for JUSA, PLEASE! Beating PSG is not a big win. You saw their team, there are a bunch of new players who need time to gel. I am not from PSG, but am sick of you about JUSA and all of long drawn out responses. Look what JUSA did at the SoCal tourney, league cup, Nationals and so on. Please dont tell you you won league, you had 3 SE divisions last year. That ='s a watered down league, you had your chance in gold and you guys stunk it up.

Don't get too excited

04-03-2006, 11:15 PM

Samba is out and will not qualify so I think you need to rearrange. IMHO, I think Surf or Nomads might be good pick for a second SD team. Just curious, JUSA beats PSG 6-2 head to head in an 80 minute match over this past weekend (Albion beats them 5-0) and you still have PSG favored over JUSA and Albion. Why? Pats definitely looked excellent.

Keepersrule:
Don't get too excited by beating PSG!!!!!!!!!!PSG coach was trying his new players on defense against Albion and Jusa. After those games, he made some adjustments and went back to his real formation againts Del Mar Sharks and beat them 2-0. His new players are getting together and they should adjusted to their style of play by nationals.
Peace Out.....Don't be a hater.......Get a life, life is too short.....

him

04-03-2006, 11:45 PM

that was the missing idea behind this tournament

with nothing at stake and just a bunch of practice games being played.

they were to feel out the boys and to let them play. despite the fields being horid and the wind a factor. it was an overall productive weekend.

upsets for sure but how can you make a conclusion from the games being played? when the teams were all mixed and people were all in different positions.

the endromantic1

Keepersrule

04-04-2006, 12:05 AM

Keepersrule:
Don't get too excited by beating PSG!!!!!!!!!!PSG coach was trying his new players on defense against Albion and Jusa. After those games, he made some adjustments and went back to his real formation againts Del Mar Sharks and beat them 2-0. His new players are getting together and they should adjusted to their style of play by nationals.
Peace Out.....Don't be a hater.......Get a life, life is too short.....

Not too exited, check my posts for any disrespect for PSG. Was my question based in hatred? I'm much more concerned about how we match up against Arsenal, VUSC and Chivas than PSG.

That's what these tournaments are for: checking formations, player combinations, shaking off the HS bad habits and getting ready for Nationals. No competent judge of talent would base an assessment of the future quality of a team of 15 year olds upon a single March tournament or two year old league play. Good luck to all (except sampson2001 (him I could hatewacko )

PS. This is just for kicks, smiles and diversion, my life is quite full, but thanks for the concerncheers1 .

visitor

04-04-2006, 06:47 AM

If Pats are playing excellent, and Surf is coming on strong, and they both prove it in Nationals, Wouldn't Premier want stronger new teams there?
It seems the top 8 gold teams have been playing each other for many years now. I know those coaches are well prepared against each other. It seems
they would want to play the best competition and maybe fresh blood.
I don't understand why the big deal if they come from SD either.
Nomads, Sharks and Surf would be fun for the top gold teams to play.
Premier plays at a central Orange County venue, don't they?
I understand those teams have to prove they belong, just as all teams in Premier do. But I get the feeling if they come from SD, they just aren't welcome. Who cares where they are from Silver Elite or SD...strong new teams would benifit
those teams wanting the competition in Premier.

Gold Coast

04-04-2006, 06:54 PM

I think (hope) that the most important reason for Premier to exist is allow the "best" (however you define that) players to have the opportunity to compete against one another and be presented with the chance to reach the next level - college, semi pro, pro, national team, etc. How do you decide who gets this chance??
I have looked at the selection process hard for 4 years, starting with a team from scratch and helping it from Bronze to Silver to SE to Gold. The team was always #1 or #2 as it worked its way to the top. It finished in the middle of BU14 Gold and and a little below that in BU15. I would like to see it in Premier. I know that placing in the "top 6" in the BU15 Gold bracket would be an automatic, but thats not how it played out for this team this season. So does not being in the top "half" for the first time in 5 seasons mean that this team doesn't belong in Premier? I don't know.
I have been to 4 appeals sessions for team bracketing, challenging other teams as well as being challenged. I am 2-2. I learned from each session that facts and performance mean the most. I know that competitive play (against the best teams) in your bracket is the most critical element. League Cup means a lot if you are on the bubble; if you look at 2004 BU14 it saved teams that were at the bottom of the bracket from relegation. National Cup finishes also help, elevating teams from 2003 BU15 and 2004 BU15 up brackets, overcoming finishes in the middle of the regular season brackets. Outside tournament play may get you some attention, but did not influence the decision making process at all (in 2004 it dropped away as a criteria for bracketing). Who you picked up - coaching wise or player wise - also meant nothing from what I could see. I tried every angle possible in promoting or defending a teams seeding, and I think (hope) I now understand how its done.
However, Premier is a special case with no appeals and a closed selection process. It would be insane otherwise; however, it would be nice to see a system set up, but that would punish the "rising star" or the team that proved its competitive standing the second time around in League or National Cup.

On the basis of competitive teams - at THIS point - with only League play and Cup to consider the "for sure" teams would be (in no set order):
Top "7" - Barcelona, SoCal, Arsenal, Strikers, Flyers, Celtics, Del Mar; Samba also would be there, but has split up. If you go to an eight team bracket, the next choice is almost impossible except by coin flip. Palmdale (next up in Gold) ?? Orange Voetibel (San Diego Premier Champion, beat Surf) ?? Fusion (R4 in League Cup, beat Pats, Samba, Celtics) ?? Surf (always competitive, but gets little chance to face Coast Gold opponents except in National Cup) ?? A Silver Elite Champion (which one - none of them got far in League Cup against the Gold teams) ?? Sting (R8 in League Cup) ?? The bottom 4 teams in Gold did not fare well against the top 10 teams; the Silver Elite Champions and the lower portion of Gold had similar competitive records against the upper Gold teams. These teams should comprise next years Gold Bracket unless an exceptional showing in National Cup occurs.

If the Premier bracket is to be "8", the top seven are decided (at least in my mind) and I can't make a call on #8. If the bracket is twelve the next five in order:
8) Fusion (tied at 10th, but tied SoCal/Flyers; beat Strikers, Samba, Celtics; lost to Arsenal/Barcelona by one goal)
9) Sting (tied at tenth, but competed well in the bracket, but came on at end of season, beating Fusion and reaching R8 in Cup)
10) Palmdale (finished 9th, eliminated early in League Cup, but competed well enough in bracket to deserve a chance)
11) Orange Voetibel (San Diego Premier Champion; could be ranked higher on this list, National Cup will clear that up)
12) The Silver Elite that claws its way to R4 in National Cup (a definite in) or R8 (a possible in) or Surf with a good show.

It is a tough job to choose, because not only is the opportunity for these boys at stake, but the "bragging rights" of the various clubs - and associated influence it brings - to have teams in Premier is also at stake. The shift of boys from one team to another - in order to "gear up" for a good showing in National Cup - is a double edged sword. If a Silver Elite team can build itself for one tournament and do well (strong play is not as important a factor in placing high as a good draw) does it deserve to be in Premier over Golds teams that have outperformed them for an entire regular season? Conversely, if a Gold team falters in League Cup or National Cup after a strong season, does it lose its chance to go to Premier?

In my mind, the way to select spots 8-12 in 2006 Premier is to take the top seven from BU15 Gold (it would have been 8 if Samba had remained), set up a grid, and plot the competitive results of teams trying for Premier spots 8-12 against these top 8. Using League season and Cup results should make the whole thing clearer. Any better suggestions ??

samson2001

04-05-2006, 04:35 PM

Not too exited, check my posts for any disrespect for PSG. Was my question based in hatred? I'm much more concerned about how we match up against Arsenal, VUSC and Chivas than PSG.

That's what these tournaments are for: checking formations, player combinations, shaking off the HS bad habits and getting ready for Nationals. No competent judge of talent would base an assessment of the future quality of a team of 15 year olds upon a single March tournament or two year old league play. Good luck to all (except sampson2001 (him I could hatewacko )

PS. This is just for kicks, smiles and diversion, my life is quite full, but thanks for the concerncheers1 .

u spelt my name wrong by the way and i played for samba so i dont no how u cud wish me bad luck....dumb ass.

Keepersrule

04-05-2006, 10:22 PM

u spelt my name wrong by the way and i played for samba so i dont no how u cud wish me bad luck....dumb ass.

It was misspelt on purpose, tongue-in-cheek, as a joke (that's why there was a smiley) because of your jusa bashing.

I did not know you are a player, I wish you no harm and apologize if ur feelings are hurt.

Do you have a new team yet? If so, the offer to scrimmage jusa still stands. Could be fun.

Gold Coast: Since we're fantasizing about a decision that we have no impact upon whatsoever why not just have a head to head playoff with the bottom goldteams and the top SE teams? CSL could make some bank on the entry fees (especially if they did this for each age group and each bracket) and at least the issue would be decided on the field.

Gold Coast

04-05-2006, 11:15 PM

It was misspelt on purpose, tongue-in-cheek, as a joke (that's why there was a smiley) because of your jusa bashing.

I did not know you are a player, I wish you no harm and apologize if ur feelings are hurt.

Do you have a new team yet? If so, the offer to scrimmage jusa still stands. Could be fun.

Gold Coast: Since we're fantasizing about a decision that we have no impact upon whatsoever why not just have a head to head playoff with the bottom goldteams and the top SE teams? CSL could make some bank on the entry fees (especially if they did this for each age group and each bracket) and at least the issue would be decided on the field.

A lot of the prior posts have been making predictions about Premier. I agree - an interesting discussion that will not influence the outcome. I look at things from a statistical point of view. I guess you missed it, but the playoff already occurred:
Gold #4 Strikers 2, SES #2 Southwest 0
Gold #5 Flyers 2, SES #1 PSG 0
Gold #8 Del Mar 1, SEW #2 West Coast 0
Gold #10 Fusion 3, SES #1 Pats 0
Gold #12 OYSA 0, SES #2 Southwest 3

Its called League Cup. SEW #1 JUSA and SEN #2 Monarches didn't advance out of the Pool round.

him

04-05-2006, 11:30 PM

i dont mean to be rude at all but what seems to happen is:

when it matters silver elite teams dont compete.

if you dont agree with me please look at the last tournament that was played

-league cup.

but maybe its just a last year thing.rose1

visitor

04-06-2006, 08:37 AM

I agree- an interesting discussion that will NOT influence the outcome.
We all have our picks of who belongs.
But wait until it is announced...then this thread will really take off, and the bashing fly.
We still have to get through Nationals, then this thread on predictions, then the predictions, it's like when you're a kid waiting for Christmas.
But I too agree, it does not look like the SE teams compare...that just does not make sense at all. Have they really improved during the break? And have the Gold teams NOT improved? Everyone improves, sorry- the stats put things into a better perspective.

him

04-06-2006, 02:26 PM

we dont really have anything to go on for legit stats except nomads and with that the only team that came from no where was surf and pats didn't win many.

things arent so clear right now.stormy1

Gold Coast

04-06-2006, 03:49 PM

we dont really have anything to go on for legit stats except nomads and with that the only team that came from no where was surf and pats didn't win many.

things arent so clear right now.stormy1

Why is Nomads important? My experience with bracketing appeals is that regular tournament play means nothing to the selectors. The classic example is FC Bayern in last years BU16 bracket, who won or made the final of numerous major tournaments but played Gold this year instead of Premier. They would have easily been "competitive" in Premier but did not do well enough in Cup play to overcome their regular season bracket finish.
When I have been to appeals, Coast has not considered regular tournament play, and their reasoning (to me) has been the inability to ascertain the impact of borrowed players, the impact of play in any one tournament vs. injuries/illness, school obligations, vacations, luck of the "bracket draw" and "experiments" by coaches as they try to create a team for the next season or another important competition. Every good team faces the same phone calls two weeks before a major tournament from their better players who have been asked by their friends (and sometimes former coaches) to "come play with us at Nomads" etc. I have seen teams that look entirely different from the team we saw in season.
When you look real hard at the selection process over the last four years - to move up or down a bracket, to select for Premier - the process seems very consistent. Top finishing teams move up fairly automatically. Bottom teams move down unless they really save themselves in League or National Cup (ie. R4 level or better - look at CFC Italia from last year). I was very surprised by the move last season of keeping 10 Gold teams from BU14 and moving up 4 Silver Elite to make a 14 team bracket. I assume they couldn't justify moving Italia down after their BU14 season (although they won very few games) because of the high League Cup and National Cup performances. High placements in League, State (Desert United from 2 years ago) and National Cup (the now Laguna Nigel from two years ago) provided grounds to elevate them a bracket despite their mid bracket finishes in regular League play. Silver Elite teams jumped past Gold to Premier at the BU16 level, but they had tremendous Cup play to tie into their #1 finish in their bracket. In addition, the bottom Gold teams left behind in the Gold bracket (and not advanced to Premier at BU16) not only were at the very bottom of Gold, but did nothing in either Cup (look at PVSC from two years ago). If I remember correctly, the top 10 teams from BU15 Gold last season and the top two Silver Elite (who did R8 and R8 in Cups and the other who made the final of National Cup) were elevated to Premier - Gold teams #9 and #10 had only won a few games but were considered competitive by Cup finishes. I have never seen anyone get a "bounce up" from a regular tournament; great tournament play grabs attention but the League and Cups is where they apparently expect you to prove yourself.

I hope that Premier next year is 12, obviously for the sake of the team I support but also because of the opportunity to all the players. There are approximately 150 teams in the BU15 bracket, not counting San Diego. Are their only 8 good goalies? 8 high level center forwards or sweepers? Only 88 starters and 77 backups worth presenting to the college coaches looking for future players? Setting the bracket to twelve opens it up a little more, gives a few more kids the chance to be seen. Which 12 teams? Everyone has their own ideas, but hopefully the results on the field will be the real factor.

unherd

04-16-2006, 09:36 PM

I think it should be the top 6-7 (the earned it)
.................................................. .................................................. ....
The top 3 Silver elite teams (evan thouhg they didn't earn it they gotta have a shot, maybe doing good maybe getting humiliated)
.................................................. .................................................. ....
And 2-3 tema form San Diego (surf nomads orange)
.................................................. .................................................. ....

If you want to get noticed and ur not in gold win your way up to premier and earn it.....

or if u cry so much go to a college showvase and get noticed there

just my info (the way i wanna see it)

Twobit

04-17-2006, 07:09 AM

Again in the Chivas tournament, the SE teams failed to impress.

Further, the performance of the bottom Gold showed they are not far from the top Gold.

Oxnard played an incredible tournament knocking out Arsenal and then losing to the champs in Semi's. Fusion (also losing in the semi's) also showed they are far better competition for the top Gold teams than the SE teams.

Surf was the biggest surprise. But not because they won (enjoy Germany, you earned it). The surprise is that they have completely brought it together. Assuming that all of their players are permanent players, they may be right up their with So Cal, Arsenal, and Barcelona. I was told that Surf has not lost a game since coming back from high school. Surf will have to bring this level of play to Nationals -- if they do, I do not think they can be denied Premier. If Orange does not show well at Nationals, Surf could jump right over them.

Strikers looked solid showing that they deserved their 4th place Gold slot. Premier must be automatic for them (as well as Flyers and Celtic, both of whom looked very strong).

There has been a lot of moving around and a lot of development since league ended. The Nationals are going to be very exciting. Good Luck to all.

P.S., the Chivas tournament was great. Well organized. Like always, refs made mistakes; but the errors I saw were balanced and none I saw resulted in any affect on the games. This was a great tune-up for Nationals.

visitor

04-17-2006, 07:21 AM

That is Surf's team. Since TB took over this team last July, he has really put together a strong squad. "bench players" are as stong as starters, so the
depth should carry them a long way.
they did use a '92 Surf player for Chivas, since they have a few injuries at the moment.
Yes, they are making a statement about qualifing for Premier.
Congrats to all the teams in Chivas Cup.
It is a shame it had to come down to PK's. If only they could call it a tie, and send both teams. ISC and Surf both deserve to go.

just a thought

04-17-2006, 07:37 AM

OYSA played good but who did they bring? There is no telling how much this coach cheats if he got caught cheating at Pats Cup, then what would he do for a free trip to Gremany? Surf looked good against Celtic, the loss of my sons team allowed us to watch that game. I did see one of the most bizarre plays ever at the Surf game.A Celtic player got fouled intentionally by the last man but the player stayed on his feet with a 1v1 against the goalie and the ref stopped the play to give the yellow card. Celtic could have gone up 2-1 with that play. Looked like Surf added the kid from CVU Rangers.

Twobit

04-17-2006, 08:25 AM

OYSA played good but who did they bring?

That is why Nationals is so important. At Nationals, we will truly see each team without borrowed players and without the loss of players on vacation.

But these tournaments sure give a good idea of the status of each team.

visitor

04-17-2006, 08:35 AM

Will these teams be healthy and strong for the next couple more weekends?
Chivas was a good tune up for Nationals, but those were not friendly matches out there- the week before Nationals.

Blondie

04-17-2006, 10:18 AM

Will these teams be healthy and strong for the next couple more weekends?
Chivas was a good tune up for Nationals, but those were not friendly matches out there- the week before Nationals.

Agree. Hopefully, with a week to rest they should be OK. Many of ours have off this week from school, Spring Break, so they should be good to go. But, I agree with you, there were some unfriendly matches this past weekend especially with so much on the line to win.

anybody home??

04-17-2006, 01:29 PM

please tell
saw the games and this time can't blame the players for coach's bad decisions.

he lost control and started yelling like a mad man

???????

04-17-2006, 03:07 PM

YES I DID SEE HIM YELLING LIKE A MAD MAN HAHAHAHHA,HE SHOULD JUST GET NEW PLAYERS SO HE CAN STOP YELLING

Someone who knows

04-17-2006, 04:32 PM

book him while you can

04-17-2006, 04:44 PM

Hahahaha

04-17-2006, 06:18 PM

OYSA took to the tournament their complete and legit roster with the exception of two great additions to their team, which are the new keeper who came from Samba and a new midfielder.
Yah right, you guys cant be trusted as far as you can be thrown. You guys got caught CHEATING at Pats Cup, so anything you will do will come into question. Play fair and see how good your coaching is when you dont throw in illegal players.

him

04-18-2006, 10:06 PM

is the samba keeper on loan??

if so sign him up before another premier team does.

he's audible,strong field presence, great keeper skills, height etc...

better that other keepers in tournament.

heard few u-16 (u-17 next season) premier teams have approached him already.

just dont even come on this site and post about that stuff he oviously wasnt the best goalie look at the standings:

he let 10 goals in

surf let in 5

isc let in 3

fusion let in 7

you arent that good pal.

Just Me

04-18-2006, 10:24 PM

just dont even come on this site and post about that stuff he oviously wasnt the best goalie look at the standings:

he let 10 goals in

surf let in 5

isc let in 3

fusion let in 7

you arent that good pal.
Wasnt he part of the Brazil team that got caught cheating? Alot better keepers then him for sure, probably the best keepers in the division are the ISC and Celtic keeper.

Keepersrule

04-18-2006, 10:39 PM

just dont even come on this site and post about that stuff he oviously wasnt the best goalie look at the standings:

he let 10 goals in

surf let in 5

isc let in 3

fusion let in 7

you arent that good pal.

You arent that smart, because he is that good.

Anyone who has any knowledge of the art of goalkeeping knows that goals against is more of an indictment of the defense in front of the Keeper than an indication of the Keeper's talent. Saves per goal, shots on goal, how well the keeper distributes the ball and communicates with his defense, whether or not he command his box, these are the key factors in assessing the keeper's competance.

JP is an exceptional keeper, in fact he just got back from representing the Region IV ODP team in Costa Rica. He is certainly one of the top 4 keepers, if not the top keeper, in our age group. He is a difference maker and will be an incredible asset to any team for whom he plays.

I normally respect what you have to say, even if I disagree, but in this case you stepped WAY over the line. Why do you feel the need to come here and disrespect such a good kid as JP regarding a skill for which you seemingly have no knowledge nor competence? Do you or your kid have as much international playing experience as JP?

Costsoccer2006

04-18-2006, 10:54 PM

OYSA's new goalie is in fact a Samba goalie, but not the starting JP. This goalie was a back up for Samba, but is still very talented.

Twobit

04-19-2006, 06:35 AM

DL, Samba's back-up goalie deserved to be a starting goalie on just about any team. He has a great attitude (never saw him complain as the back-up goalie). He is a strong consistent player, and as noted, communicates well with the defense on the field.

I missed the OYSA games and therefore cannot confirm that DL is the goalie that was with OYSA, but if he was and OYSA has signed him up, I am glad that he also has found a good team to join.

Good luck to all in Nationals.

Hmmmmm

04-19-2006, 01:32 PM

You arent that smart, because he is that good.

Anyone who has any knowledge of the art of goalkeeping knows that goals against is more of an indictment of the defense in front of the Keeper than an indication of the Keeper's talent. Saves per goal, shots on goal, how well the keeper distributes the ball and communicates with his defense, whether or not he command his box, these are the key factors in assessing the keeper's competance.

JP is an exceptional keeper, in fact he just got back from representing the Region IV ODP team in Costa Rica. He is certainly one of the top 4 keepers, if not the top keeper, in our age group. He is a difference maker and will be an incredible asset to any team for whom he plays.

I normally respect what you have to say, even if I disagree, but in this case you stepped WAY over the line. Why do you feel the need to come here and disrespect such a good kid as JP regarding a skill for which you seemingly have no knowledge nor competence? Do you or your kid have as much international playing experience as JP?If you mean the 4 best in 1991 group, you may be right, but he is not as good as the ISC or Celtic keepers these guys are head and shoulders above the rest and I do not think either is ODP. These guys are longer in goal and unfortunately JP probably wont get too much taller, he has been this size for awhile.

Blondie

04-19-2006, 02:05 PM

Keepersrule

04-19-2006, 02:59 PM

If you mean the 4 best in 1991 group, you may be right, but he is not as good as the ISC or Celtic keepers these guys are head and shoulders above the rest and I do not think either is ODP. These guys are longer in goal and unfortunately JP probably wont get too much taller, he has been this size for awhile.

I did mean the 1991's, but in fairness I would include the U15's also. And I am talking about right now, not future potential as his size will eventually be problematic. I absolutely agree with the assessment of the ISC and Celtic keepers, both were 1990 ODP pool. We train with them and the Pat's keeper on a weekly basis and the intensity of the training (and the interpersonal competition amongst all 4) is beautiful to watch. Ask yourself this question the next time you judge a keeper's performance: whose the better keeper, the one who makes the spectacular save or the one who positioned himself so that he only had to make an ordinary save?

My top 10 BU15 keepers (in no particular order and inclusive of all personal bias): So Cal (90), Celtic (90), ISC (90), Samba (91), Southwest (91), Jusa (91), Surf (90), Flyers (90), Pats (90), WCFC (??).

PS. Blondie, where do you hide your radar gun??

Academy Fan

04-19-2006, 04:13 PM

Flyers GK = 1991

Blondie

04-19-2006, 07:39 PM

PS. Blondie, where do you hide your radar gun??[/QUOTE]

Do I really have to tell? LOL Very cute!

visitor

05-01-2006, 09:01 AM

After two weekends of soccer, here are some observations.
There is definitly a gap of play from the top 8 or "Premier" teams to
the gold teams below them.
However, there is some very good soccer played by so many teams at Nationals. But there is a difference of speed and depth on these teams.
top eight should be in premier.
Keep in mind there were some very difficult pools and although Celtic bowed out, they do play at a higher level throughout gold level seasons and tournaments.

For sure, or should be because they are just that much better:
So Cal United
Barca
Arsenal
Stikers
Surf
Flyers
Celtic
Sharks
Celtic

However, I understand Surf will not be invited to Premier and they will
be doing their own "college Premier tour" getting the college exposure.

Fusion-?
Nexaca Sting-maybe
Oranje- no way- not enough depth
But although the Pateadores get a free ride to the semis, it is
not accurate with the Strikers getting DQd, only give the Pats a
walk into the top 4 teams, and they truely do not compare with
Arsenal, Bara, So cal, etc.

More than 8 spots would be weak- there really are only 8 top teams, and
the ones closest should play gold at U-16, get level of play up, and into Premier at U-17.

Good soccer out there, but just a bit of a "premier" difference.

visitor

05-01-2006, 01:25 PM

Oops, I put Celtic in that list twice.
So really, there is still one spot open for the list of 8.
who would you add if it were only 8 top teams?

Boge

05-01-2006, 01:33 PM

I may be biased but I believe that if we were to start league today, Sting would end up in the top 8. They may not be in the top 3 but they'll give anyone a run for their money.

Keepersrule

05-01-2006, 02:31 PM

Boge,

thisjustin You ARE biased. And that's ok. lzre

Players Only

05-05-2006, 05:58 PM

hey keppersrule what keepers do u think will get a ODP letter to come and try out for the 90's

Keepersrule

05-06-2006, 11:31 AM

hey keppersrule what keepers do u think will get a ODP letter to come and try out for the 90's

Tough call, I probably have a better handle on the 91's (I can keep a secret, it's the ten people that I tell you have to watch out for) and have limited knowledge of the U16 keepers.

If they take 5 I would think they will keep the two from the winter pool (U16's) and add NS (my personal fav) EA (he deserves the chance) and either the Barca keeper (i dont know his name) or GG (good size but I haven't seen enough of his play to be convinced of his overall skills). Unfortunately RD had a very difficult weekend at Nationals and that may work against him.

If they take 4 then the winter pool 2 and NS should be a lock and the last spot could be decided by a coin flip as the quality is there.

What I do know is that I do not want to have to make this decision and that once it is made, someone will complain that there were better players who didn'tget picked (they might be right) and that who makes ODP is all about politics (they would be wrong).

temo white

05-09-2006, 04:05 PM

So which teams are going to premier? are any silver elite teams being invited?
anybody know?

Keepersrule

05-09-2006, 10:03 PM

Those that think they know secret1 don't, and those that do know aren't talking seehear .

prem

05-11-2006, 06:03 PM

when is does the list usually get posted saying whose in premier?

prem

05-16-2006, 10:32 PM

the schedual was recently posted and looks like 12 teams

WOW

05-21-2006, 05:47 PM

i would have to say that the So Cal goalie and the Strikers goalie are the 2 best goalies in the u-15 age group...i mean...EA got the golden glove over Josh Lambo...the US 90 National Team Goalie

futbolero

05-21-2006, 07:51 PM

i would have to say that the So Cal goalie and the Strikers goalie are the 2 best goalies in the u-15 age group...i mean...EA got the golden glove over Josh Lambo...the US 90 National Team Goalie
It helps to have a GREAT DEFENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blondie

05-22-2006, 06:27 PM

the schedual was recently posted and looks like 12 teams

Have it on strong authority that it will only be 8.

Academy Fan

05-22-2006, 06:51 PM

Blondie

05-22-2006, 07:43 PM

you know with a statement like that you are going to start a panic. Even the teams like ours that finish in the top 5 have to be just the slightest bit nervous at the thought of an 8 team premier bracket. I think that would be a great way to go though. We could play each team twice and get a true measure of each team. It would eliminate the "we had a bad day" defense.

I don't think I've ever seen a BU-16 Premier Bracket at more than 8, ever. I could be wrong. I would, once again, love to see each team play each other twice. My "authority" seemed pretty positive that it will only be 8 teams, and we'd all know by mid-June.

I'd like to see also how the Super Y League will play into the CSL Premier League. How will they do games? And at what time of year? Will teams be traveling or will we be hosting or both?

Ahhhhh, the perils of club soccer and the unknown....................

gobshite

05-22-2006, 07:47 PM

I don't think I've ever seen a BU-16 Premier Bracket at more than 8, ever. I could be wrong. I would, once again, love to see each team play each other twice. My "authority" seemed pretty positive that it will only be 8 teams, and we'd all know by mid-June.

I'd like to see also how the Super Y League will play into the CSL Premier League. How will they do games? And at what time of year? Will teams be traveling or will we be hosting or both?

Ahhhhh, the perils of club soccer and the unknown....................

you are wrong, last years BU16 was 12 teams

Academy Fan

05-22-2006, 07:51 PM

I look at it like this:

Yes it would be nice to know what the future holds, but we are just going to fall in line and do whatever is asked of us (as parents) anyways...so why sweat it.

If we end up travelling all over the western US to get to these games, we'll do it. It'll cost us another (larger) second mortgage, but we'll do it. Our kids are worth it and at this level of play we all feel that they have what it takes to make their (or maybe our own) dreams become a reality, so we'll do whatever is asked of us.

As long as they have Embassy Suites with the Manager's Receptions nearby I'll be happy :-)

Keepersrule

05-22-2006, 08:17 PM

Blondie,

How many times has your "authority" changed his/her position regarding the number of teams? BTW there were 12 teams in 2005, 2001 and 2000, 10 in 2002 and 8 in 2003 and 2004. So from that standpoint 12 is more the norm than is 8.

Blondie

05-22-2006, 08:20 PM

you are wrong, last years BU16 was 12 teams

You are so right. I'm wrong. Had a older son who played years back and did not remember there being 12 teams at 16, but I've been corrected. Anyway, we'll all know by mid-June. This "authority" seemed pretty positive as I'm sure all of you have your own "authorities" who say different.

Blondie

05-22-2006, 08:22 PM

prem

05-29-2006, 11:16 AM

Boys U16:
FC Barcelona Blue
Real So Cal
Arsenal FC
ISC Strikers
LAFC Flyers
Celtic Harps
Del Mar Sharks
Playoff Spot

BU16 Playoff on July 7, 8 and 9 at San Bernardino for the 8th Premier Spot.
Teams for Playoff:
Palmdale Thunder
SCU Sting (Necaxa)
NV Fusion
Paris St. Germain
Pateadores
JUSA Select Blue

Dominic

05-29-2006, 11:42 AM

Thanks for posting Prem.

Link to all teams:

http://www.coastsoccer.com/index.php?ct=nw000058

Blondie

05-29-2006, 06:27 PM

pimp

05-29-2006, 07:58 PM

i wanted to ask if if u know anything about the rules for signing new players or borrowing even for the 8th premier spot??or do they have 2 play with the roster they had in national cup??
thanks

Blondie

05-29-2006, 08:32 PM

i wanted to ask if if u know anything about the rules for signing new players or borrowing even for the 8th premier spot??or do they have 2 play with the roster they had in national cup??
thanks

Good question. Of which I would have your TA or Coach address directly to Gary Sparks at CSL Premier. But if I had to venture a guess, I would assume that they would want to see the roster you will have signed for the new season. I highly doubt they will allow "borrowed" players. This doesn't happen for a little over a month from now, and I would guess most players will be signed to their new teams by that time.

pimp

05-29-2006, 08:43 PM

thank you.

Keepersrule

05-30-2006, 01:39 PM

Rules will be sent to all participating teams. Hope each match must have a winner.

Blondie

05-30-2006, 02:01 PM

Rules will be sent to all participating teams. Hope each match must have a winner.

Don't you think having it July 7-9 is a long time away? This will be hard for players' decisions, and for coach's recruiting. What's your thoughts?

Keepersrule

05-30-2006, 03:18 PM

Don't you think having it July 7-9 is a long time away? This will be hard for players' decisions, and for coach's recruiting. What's your thoughts?

The cynic in me might say that GS will be at the World Cup during June but couldn't get tickets to the semi's or Finals. But that would be purely hypothetical and without any known basis in reality. wacko

No, I do not think it too far away, perhaps it could be done earlier, but those of us who have WC tickets might not appreciate having to choose between losing the $$ already spent and staying home for a playoff. Can't be much later since the 91 and 90 Regional ODP Camps start July 10 and run for three weeks. Roster Freeze is July 31, not that that should enter the calculus.

I would wait to see the totality of the rules before commenting on how this might impact recruiting or player movement.

Keepersrule

07-02-2006, 09:31 AM

From the CSL website:

Rules for Games for Boys U16.

Since the Boys play two games a day, the games will be shortened to 70 minutes a game, two (2) 35 minute halves. However, the CSL Premier Committee would like the games won on the field with no ties.

[wtg Who says they don't read this site? wacko ]

Therefore, in the event a game ends in a tie, there will be two overtime periods of 10 minutes each. NO GOLDEN GOAL. If the game is still tied after both overtime periods, the referees will take the game into FIFA Penalty Kicks.

The team with the most points wins. 3 Points for a win. 0 Points for a loss. In the event there is a tie in points, HEAD TO HEAD determines the winner. Winner is in CSL Premier.

[What will CSL do if there is a three way or more tie?]

ROSTER RULES

1. The team will turn in their roster 45 minutes before their 1st Premier Playoff Game.
2. Every Player who will be playing in the game must be on the roster when it is turned in before the first Playoff Game.
3. There will be no additions to the roster once the roster has been turned in.
4. Players on the roster that is turned in NEED NOT BE REGISTERED TO THE TEAM. They may be LOAN PLAYERS. The limit of LOAN PLAYERS is 9 for a team. A core of players from last year’s team must be kept to meet CSL Premier Policies.
5. All that is needed to play for any LOAN PLAYER is a Cal South Player Pass and his/her medical release. The player MUST be registered to Cal South. No exceptions.
6. THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE – The team that wins the CSL Premier spot MUST-MUST-MUST have every player on the roster that was turned in on the team’s certified Cal South Coris System Roster by July 23rd. IF JUST ONE PLAYER WHO PLAYED IN THE PLAYOFFS IS NOT REGISTERED TO THE TEAM BY JULY 23rd, the team will be dropped from Premier and moved to Gold. The team who finished 2nd and has the full playoff roster registered to its team will take the Premier spot.

If a Premier Playoff Team Manager or Coach has a question, please contact your CSL Premier Bracket Chairperson.

CSL PREMIER WILL PAY ALL REFEREE FEES FOR THE PLAYOFF GAMES.

This just might be the most intense tournament of the summer!

Blondie

07-02-2006, 10:38 AM

him

07-02-2006, 12:22 PM

if the team has any confidence wouldnt you think they wouldnt borrow?

or would they borrow and get into premier then build from there?

doesnt seem right.

Twobit

07-02-2006, 12:39 PM

Interesting that they are allowing "Loan" players for this playoff. How will they then get a "true" sense of the makeup of the team and how they will hold up in Premier?

CSL's method for handling loan players makes a lot of sense.

If a player wants to commit to the team only if they make premiew, CSL has paved the way.

CSL provides that even if one single loan player does not sign to the winning team by 7/23, that team gets dropped from Premier.

SoccerSupporter

07-03-2006, 07:18 AM

CSL's method for handling loan players makes a lot of sense.

If a player wants to commit to the team only if they make premiew, CSL has paved the way.

CSL provides that even if one single loan player does not sign to the winning team by 7/23, that team gets dropped from Premier.

THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE – The team that wins the CSL Premier spot MUST-MUST-MUST have every player on the roster that was turned in on the team’s certified Cal South Coris System Roster by July 23rd. IF JUST ONE PLAYER WHO PLAYED IN THE PLAYOFFS IS NOT REGISTERED TO THE TEAM BY JULY 23rd, the team will be dropped from Premier and moved to Gold. The team who finished 2nd and has the full playoff roster registered to its team will take the Premier spot.

Does this mean that if even only one player that played in the playoffs does not register with the team they will not make premier?

What if a player can't play (personal reasons), quits soccer, but does not register with any other team either?

Keepersrule

07-03-2006, 09:04 AM

You gotta be kidding, right? Can't you read and comprehend English? The answer to your question can not be more obvious, it 's even in CAPS!

Do you always lose the obvious game?

07-03-2006, 09:25 AM

What if a player can't play (personal reasons), quits soccer, but does not register with any other team either?

If a player quit, and wasn't playing elsewhere, or just couldn't play, a team would just leave them on the roster to qualify.

SoccerSupporter

07-03-2006, 08:28 PM

You gotta be kidding, right? Can't you read and comprehend English? The answer to your question can not be more obvious, it 's even in CAPS!

Do you always lose the obvious game?

What an ass! Leave you stupid, idiotic, rude, responses for the kitchen where it is expected.

I suppose if the player was run over by a car, died of cancer, died in an accident, etc.. it would still apply. I was asking a simple question what would happen if a player could not play for whatever reason?

Get a life idiot!

Cleopatra

07-05-2006, 09:52 AM

Hey! that's just the way Keepersrule is, he thinks he is always right, he thinks he knows so much about soccer and he is just plain rude!

SoccerSupporter

07-05-2006, 08:50 PM

Hey! that's just the way Keepersrule is, he thinks he is always right, he thinks he knows so much about soccer and he is just plain rude!

I knew that but usually this kind of rudeness stays in the kitchen. I wonder how CSL will handle possible exceptions. I can't believe that there will be no exceptions. A lot can happen outside of soccer that can't possibly be anticipated by CSL.

Twobit

07-05-2006, 09:54 PM

I knew that but usually this kind of rudeness stays in the kitchen. I wonder how CSL will handle possible exceptions. I can't believe that there will be no exceptions. A lot can happen outside of soccer that can't possibly be anticipated by CSL.

CSL only said all of the players had to be on the roster. Just register the player (now if you are worried).

They did not say the players could not drop or transfer later.

him

07-07-2006, 09:54 PM

any one got any scores for the playoff?

Keepersrule

07-08-2006, 08:45 AM

any one got any scores for the playoff?

At the risk of being called rude for stating the obvious wacko :

B16 JUSA SELECT - 2 PATEADORES 1 (OT/PKS)
B16 SCU STING (NECAXA)- 2 PALMDALE THUNDER - 1
B16 PARIS ST. GERMAIN - 1 NV FUSION - 0

The PSG-Fusion match was decided by a late goal.

JUSA scored the tying goal while a man down (looked like the ref got the yellow card call correct but gave it to the wrong player who already had been carded in the first half, the misidentification was probbly the result of the fact that the entire bank of lights on the north side of the field were not working and it was a very dark playing environment in the second half) and then in PK's the Jusa keeper made a save and the Pat's keeper didn't. Well played match by both sides, Pat's had the better scoring opportunities and might be correct if they feel they should have won.

Didn't see any of the Sting-Thunder match.

Prop's to CSL for the format and the concept. 5 matches in 3 days with no allowance for teams to play for a tie should certainly show which of the 6 is the best team.

Academy Fan

07-08-2006, 09:16 AM

Thanks for the update Keep, please keep them coming.

Keepersrule

07-08-2006, 10:05 AM

thankuI call them as I see them. Next report this PM.

him

07-08-2006, 08:55 PM

PARIS ST. GERMAIN - 2
JUSA SELECT - 1

NV FUSION - 3
PALMDALE THUNDER - 0

PATEADORES - 2 (OT)
SCU STING - 1 (OT)

just getting them off the site.

this is going to be a tough one.

Keepersrule

07-08-2006, 11:37 PM

Jusa 3 - Sting 2 : Could have been 5-1. Sting scored 2 late goals after the match was decided and keeper injured. Jusa dominated play. Sting's play may have been impacted by CG's suspension.

Pat's 1 - Fusion 0 : Very good match, Pat's seemed to dominate the run of play but the Fusion back 4 were exceptional until the very last play of the match when Pat's scored a fantastic goal.

PSG 4 - Palmdale 1 : PSG is the surprise of the tournament so far, they have added new talent and are playing together as a team. They are definately not the same team that we saw in Nationals.

Rankings after 3 rounds: PSG 3-0, Jusa 2-1, Pat's 2-1, Sting 1-2, Fusion 1-2, Palmdale 0-3

Don't know what tommorow will bring, but right now the Silver Elite Teams are 5-0 against the gold teams. The heat and the intensity of the matches are beggining to take their toll. Can't speak for other teams but Jusa has lost two players to knee injuries this tournament, had an athsmatic player pass out on the field at the 3:00 match today and the keeper has a gash on his left leg from the Sting match (a clean play, 50-50 ball in the box, just ended up on the wrong end of some cleats) that required 12 stitches.

It is quite possible that three or four teams could end up tied with 4-1 or 3-2 records. If that happens, should Premier be a 10 or 11 team league?

Boge

07-09-2006, 06:07 AM

Keepersrule

07-09-2006, 09:25 AM

Congratulations on the win. Sorry to hear that Sting is not doing too well but they are not the same team that played in Nationals. We left right after Nationals and were shortly followed by the center mid and then the sweeper. One, I believe, went to the flyers and the other 2 to Celtic. I did not predict PSG to do this well. They must have added some quality players.

Are you back with Celtic? If so, congrats and good luck for next season, maybe we will hook up at the Pat's cup. Sting will be fine and the more I think about the match last night the more I believe that CG's absence was significant. It may not have changed the result, but it certainly didn't help Sting's cause.

BTW, CG was suspended as a result of his actions during the Pat's match. A Pat's (impact) player was yellow carded during the first over-time period ( a good call). Not less than one minute later, the same player committed another foul just outside the Pat's box. The Pat's player was clearly fatigued, made a late tackle and the Sting Player tried to sell the foul perhaps too much. The ref came over and it looked like he was reaching for his pocket to give another card, he asked the Pat's player to show his number and when the ref realized he had just given that kid a yellow card, he put his cards back in his pocket, talked to the Pat's player and then signaled for the free kick. CG went ballistic and was up and down the sideline yelling at the ref for the next two or three minutes until he finally get sent off. He may have been hard done by, but he certainly didn't help himself or his team with his actions.

Props to PSG for their play so far. They are playing very organized and skillful futball very unlike their prior pre-Nationals and National cup play. I think their coaching has also had a significant impact on this team. Say what you want about him (and I know several who hold unfavorable views) but he has always been gracious and professional with me and I have yet to witness any untoward sideline behavior on his part. I would like to see Jusa play them again with a full squad as we seemed to control the match after the first fifteen minutes as we adjusted to playing with only 10 men, but suspensions, injuries and illness are a part of the game and PSG had the best of us on Saturday. A tournament like this is decided not only by the team with the best individual players, but the team with the best depth of talent as well.

The fact that you and so many other players have moved teams since Nationals is, IMHO, justification for holding such a tournament to decide promotion and relegation. What I have seen so far is that, with the possibility of one exception (whom I have not yet seen play so this comment is based only upon match results which may prove to be deceiving), all of these teams are very evenly matched. The quality of play has been exceptional and the intensity level very high. If you can make it out today (3:00 and/or 8:00), it just might be the best futball of the summer.

Dominic

07-09-2006, 10:09 AM

SCU Sting = Santa Clarita United ? I was not aware of them moving to Santa Clarita.

1888

07-09-2006, 05:41 PM

Pat's vs PSG, winner gets the spot.

temo white

07-09-2006, 06:14 PM

What a shocker I was thinking Fusion or Necaxa!! Anybody know why these teams underperform?

Boge

07-09-2006, 06:16 PM

Are you back with Celtic? If so, congrats and good luck for next season, maybe we will hook up at the Pat's cup. Sting will be fine and the more I think about the match last night the more I believe that CG's absence was significant. It may not have changed the result, but it certainly didn't help Sting's cause.

BTW, CG was suspended as a result of his actions during the Pat's match. A Pat's (impact) player was yellow carded during the first over-time period ( a good call). Not less than one minute later, the same player committed another foul just outside the Pat's box. The Pat's player was clearly fatigued, made a late tackle and the Sting Player tried to sell the foul perhaps too much. The ref came over and it looked like he was reaching for his pocket to give another card, he asked the Pat's player to show his number and when the ref realized he had just given that kid a yellow card, he put his cards back in his pocket, talked to the Pat's player and then signaled for the free kick. CG went ballistic and was up and down the sideline yelling at the ref for the next two or three minutes until he finally get sent off. He may have been hard done by, but he certainly didn't help himself or his team with his actions.

Props to PSG for their play so far. They are playing very organized and skillful futball very unlike their prior pre-Nationals and National cup play. I think their coaching has also had a significant impact on this team. Say what you want about him (and I know several who hold unfavorable views) but he has always been gracious and professional with me and I have yet to witness any untoward sideline behavior on his part. I would like to see Jusa play them again with a full squad as we seemed to control the match after the first fifteen minutes as we adjusted to playing with only 10 men, but suspensions, injuries and illness are a part of the game and PSG had the best of us on Saturday. A tournament like this is decided not only by the team with the best individual players, but the team with the best depth of talent as well.

The fact that you and so many other players have moved teams since Nationals is, IMHO, justification for holding such a tournament to decide promotion and relegation. What I have seen so far is that, with the possibility of one exception (whom I have not yet seen play so this comment is based only upon match results which may prove to be deceiving), all of these teams are very evenly matched. The quality of play has been exceptional and the intensity level very high. If you can make it out today (3:00 and/or 8:00), it just might be the best futball of the summer.

Love to watch but we're in San Diego for the Pegasus Cup. Celtic is in the finals and will play tomorrow (Monday) at 3:30.The Celtic team is playing very good soccer right now and I feel they will be the favorite tomorrow against SWSC.

temo white

07-09-2006, 09:43 PM

Pat's vs PSG, winner gets the spot.

Who won? Any details on the game?

1888

07-09-2006, 10:50 PM

Who won? Any details on the game?

8:00 games...
B16:
NV Fusion - 1
SCU Sting - 0

JUSA Select- 2
Palmdale Thunder - 0

Pateadores - 2
Paris St. Germain -0

(from the coast soccer site)

soccerama

07-09-2006, 11:59 PM

Looks like Pats have it............it was quite a tournament!

Twobit

07-10-2006, 07:51 AM

You guys worked hard for it and no one can take it away.

I would not say that Nexcaxa and Fusion underperformed, I think the SE teams stepped it up.

Necaxa did well beating PSG and losing to Pats in overtime. Fusion only had two goals scored against them. Other than Palmdale, all of the teams were very close.

The refs were a mixed bunch (some calling every contact and others letting the players play). I did not see any game result affected by the ref'ing.

I think if I had to vote on a team that showed best as a class act, I would vote for JUSA. For the most part the parents and players were very positive.

As said above, the playoff format gave each team the ability to show what each re-tooled team could do. As such the "borrowed" player policy worked well.

To Coast Premier -- thanks for a thoughful process and a great tournament.

On to the summer tournaments.

jules rimet

07-10-2006, 03:22 PM

Academy Fan

07-10-2006, 06:14 PM

Blondie

07-10-2006, 08:39 PM

This kinda puts us "regular" posters in a tough spot.

I would like to say to the PATs, "Welcome to premier", but that makes me sound arrogant.

On the other hand, if I don't say anything at all, that makes me appear...Eliteist(sp).

Well, Congrats to the winner of the Premier Spot Playoffs.

I am just looking forward to spending my weekends in San Juan capistrano and seeing some of the best competition in the US of A.

Is there an In-N-Out nearby???

Shoot up Antonio from Ortega and you will enter Ladera Ranch, which has two wonderful/new shopping centers with tons of restaurants and great stores. There's even a Chicks if any of the boys' forget anything or break anything.

Also congrats to the Pats. It will be great playing at the Polo Fields and fairly close to home.

mofo

07-11-2006, 01:56 PM

Love to watch but we're in San Diego for the Pegasus Cup. Celtic is in the finals and will play tomorrow (Monday) at 3:30.The Celtic team is playing very good soccer right now and I feel they will be the favorite tomorrow against SWSC.

boge, what did you think of the game?

Boge

07-11-2006, 03:06 PM

boge, what did you think of the game?
Hey Mofo,
Good to see you again. Why didn't you tend to the goal during the PK's? I thought that Celtic lost their heads when the ref awarded SWSC that first PK for a non foul in the box. The game was so intense that emotion got the best of both sides. The refs made good and bad calls but I think it was no advantage or disadvantage to either side. In the end, luck had more to do with the win than skill. That was the best I've ever seen SWSC play. I would have suspected that you guys had borrowed players but my son says he thinks that is your regular team. I commend SWSC for stepping up and elevating their game when it counted the most. Next time it could be you guys.

mofo

07-11-2006, 04:00 PM

Hey Mofo,
Good to see you again. Why didn't you tend to the goal during the PK's? I thought that Celtic lost their heads when the ref awarded SWSC that first PK for a non foul in the box. The game was so intense that emotion got the best of both sides. The refs made good and bad calls but I think it was no advantage or disadvantage to either side. In the end, luck had more to do with the win than skill. That was the best I've ever seen SWSC play. I would have suspected that you guys had borrowed players but my son says he thinks that is your regular team. I commend SWSC for stepping up and elevating their game when it counted the most. Next time it could be you guys.

ya that was a great game... I am dissipointed in the refs though. Ya the goalie that did the Pk's he has been doing them forever and he is the best I have ever seen do them. So i was more then happy to let him go. Hes a boxer so he has great reaction... but for our team... we were actually missing about 2 starters... but i got to give it to you guys for not letten down...Great Game!!!
But you guys borrwed 2-3 players right or did you sighn them???

Boge

07-11-2006, 04:21 PM

ya that was a great game... I am dissipointed in the refs though. Ya the goalie that did the Pk's he has been doing them forever and he is the best I have ever seen do them. So i was more then happy to let him go. Hes a boxer so he has great reaction... but for our team... we were actually missing about 2 starters... but i got to give it to you guys for not letten down...Great Game!!!
But you guys borrwed 2-3 players right or did you sighn them???
Only 1 was not a signed player. He just wanted to play in the tournament. Though a good player, he did not really impact on the result of the match. The signed players made more of an impact on the team.

Keepersrule

07-11-2006, 10:40 PM

Was in SD at P Cup (stayed a lil longer to relax my mind) and the word came fast to these parts of so cal near the border of a new revamped surprise team:
tell me all the details, do tell.

true??

"PSG is the surprise of the tournament so far, they have added new talent and are playing together as a team. They are definately not the same team that we saw in Nationals"

"Props to PSG for their play so far. They are playing very organized and skillful soccer very unlike their prior pre-Nationals and National cup play. I think their coaching has also had a significant impact on this team."

congrats to Pats for winning
also heard JUSA and Fusion did well while the remaining tried their hardest but just was not their day.

i heard i missed the best tournament played thus far this summer.

it is not the same when you play for a medal than when your fight for the right to be respected and treated as one of the best teams out there.

good choice by GS wtg

Yes, it was the best tournament of the summer, it will be hard to top it for intensity and competitiveness. CSL deserves great praise for a great event. Some issues, of course (lights not working, a ref or two who thought it was the world cup and went card happy), but all tournaments have them. What is important is how those issues are responded to and CSL was spot on.

It was a fight for respect and in the end, for those of us who experienced the event, I think the top 4 teams all showed that they can be competitive at the Premier level. Whether they could be successful is another story. There were those who were present from some of the top premier teams who indicated to me that any of these 4 teams teams could do both. It's not too late for CSL to reach the same conclusion.

I think that this tournament also should cause those who have forcefully articulated the claim that the top Silver Elite teams do not deserve the right to be considered for promotion to premier to rethink their position. At the end of the day, it was the three SE winners that were the most successful. Pat's and PSG dramatically re-tooled while Jusa made a few quality changes. Were the promotion to have been a matter of course based upon winning the SE bracket, even more quality players would have been attracted to these teams. It's just the way the system works.

IMHO, what I got from this tournament is that CSL has shown its hand as to what it consideres important when making bracketing decisions. League play, over an extended period of time with set rosters and no loan players is the number one priority. PERIOD.

League Cup is a very distant second for several reasons: It is optional and not all teams participate; The vagarities of scheduling (some teams get a home field advantage); and the timing of the event at the end of the season when that tournament is not the priority for those teams fighting for a bracket championship.

National Cup results appear to have little or no impact at all. Unless your team makes it all the way to the finals and has several quality wins along the way, placing great emphasis upon a National Cup run to overcome a weak League result is wishful thinking. That some teams and coaches use it as a recruiting tool is almost criminal.

Finally, Props to the Pat's, you won fair and square (even though Jusa did beat you with only 10 men). PSG was also impressive, especially considering prior play. Fusion for my money was the best team in the tournament, their back line was awesome. JUSA showed great heart in coping with significant adversity (imagine the result if our Coach would have been able to be there) and perhaps got the most with the least. Sting, a good team that will perhaps underperform until it resolves its sideline issues (your coach such a brilliant coach and trainer, why does he act the way he does?). Palmdale: just not your weekend, looks like you lost a number of players, but you showed class and played hard all the way through the end.

Well Played.

temo white

07-11-2006, 11:09 PM

Next year Gold Bracket is going to be a fierce battle for all the 12 teams especially for those teams thinking of moving up to the premier level.Good luck to Pateadores in premier,excellent job for showing they were the best team of the play-off tournament.

Fuzbol Fan

07-12-2006, 11:18 AM

[QUOTE=mofo]ya that was a great game... I am dissipointed in the refs though. Ya the goalie that did the Pk's he has been doing them forever and he is the best I have ever seen do them. So i was more then happy to let him go. Hes a boxer so he has great reaction... but for our team... we were actually missing about 2 starters... but i got to give it to you guys for not letten down...Great Game!!!
But you guys borrwed 2-3 players right or did you sighn them??? From what I understand, there was some what of a controversy during the PK session. I understand that the SWSC goalie made saves but that he came off the line and they were called back. I have seen this from him before when he played another team and they called a PK during the game he came from the field and switched with the goalie. I was told that the Celtic goalie made 2 saves as well but did not come off the line. Did you sign with SWSC?

mofo

07-12-2006, 04:45 PM

ya i did

jules rimet

07-12-2006, 06:15 PM

ohmy
so who is he new celtic keeper ??

him

07-13-2006, 11:19 AM

just because pats beat a few lower gold teams and higher silver elite teams. do they really think that gives them a great opportunity to do well against the best in the state or even the country? real socal barca arsenal isc..etc.

but that is awsome that they EARNED there way into premier.

Keepersrule

07-13-2006, 12:45 PM

ohmy
so who is he new celtic keeper ??

The celtic keeper is the team managers son. He has always been the number one. He is certianly one of the top 5 keepers in BU16.

him

07-13-2006, 09:46 PM

did your son play in the premier play off?

how did jusa post up against the others?

thank you

Keepersrule

07-13-2006, 10:52 PM

did your son play in the premier play off?

how did jusa post up against the others?

thank you

Yes, he did. He was the difference against the Pats, could have played better against PSG, and was superb against Fusion, Sting (until he got hurt) and Palmdale.

In my totally biased opinion, Jusa posted up exceptionally well. Beat the Pat's in Pk's with only ten men, probably outplayed but didn't outscore PSG with only ten men (suspension, injuries, illness and a missing player), dominated Sting and Palmdale and played Fusion straight up - gave up a break away counter-attack but couldn't score against their fantastic defensive back 4. And Jusa did it all with a substitute coach, since JH had a prior ODP engagement that he couldn't get out of.

If I may be so bold as to answer your previous question, Pat's will do just fine in Premier. Real Socal and Barca are the clear class of the group, but I'm not sold on Arsenal, Del Mar nor ISC (sorry Blondie) at this time as being dominate. We shall see. Flyers have great potential to join the top 2 but that's just what it is, potential. Can they realize it? No one knows. And Celtic is the ultimate wildcard. Can they shake off their National Cup meltdown? Your guess is as good as mine.

If CSL decides that Premier can handle 10 teams, then PSG and Fusion (I'm being realistic about Jusa's options) will be competitive, with Fusion probably being more sucessful since they have the better defense. If CSL goes with 12 then Jusa and Sting will certainly make it a battle for the bottom six teams.

It all really depends upon which players will fill the remaining 2-4 roster spots that each team has open at this time.