Question. Why are birthdates for the season set at August 1st if the new season is July? Is this mandated by USYSA? Can CYSA-S or CSL modify this rule?

Originally posted by Guest@Jun 27 2005, 12:53 PM
Question. Why are birthdates for the season set at August 1st if the new season is July? Is this mandated by USYSA? Can CYSA-S or CSL modify this rule?
Why are birthdates for the season set at August 1st if the new season is July?

The new season technically starts Sept. 1, not in July. Tournaments are allowed to start accepting the new regisration on August 1st, and a few tournament have started to accept them at the end of July, and haven't been prevented by CYSA-S.

Back in the early 90s (I don't remember the year), the International Soccer Community decided that we would go from a calendar year for the birth dates, to a "school year", and decided upon August 1st to July 31st. The next year, USYS followed to be in line with the International decision.

Is this mandated by USYSA?

Yes.

Can CYSA-S or CSL modify this rule?

No.

It's ironic that several other sports have now started switching to birthyear.

Question:
Any idea why ODP is based on birthyear?

Originally posted by GOOOAAALLL@Jun 27 2005, 08:52 PM
It's ironic that several other sports have now started switching to birthyear.

Question:
Any idea why ODP is based on birthyear?
Any idea why ODP is based on birthyear?

Because the "O" in ODP stands for Olympic. Olympic = international. International = calendar year.

(Yes, the International Community switched back to calendar year)


Now we're stuck. When the US went from calendar year to school year, we moved the "born after" date from January 1st to the prior August 1st, i.e.: 1980 teams (birth dates of 1/1/80 to 12/31/80), became 79-80 teams (birth dates of 8/1/79 to 7/31/80). It just meant you could all of a sudden add players to your team who were six months older.

To go back to calendar year would me reversing the process - which would mean virtually destroying every club team.

Originally posted by Mike Benjamin+Jun 27 2005, 08:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike Benjamin @ Jun 27 2005, 08:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GOOOAAALLL@Jun 27 2005, 08:52 PM
It's ironic that several other sports have now started switching to birthyear.

Question:
Any idea why ODP is based on birthyear?
Any idea why ODP is based on birthyear?

Because the "O" in ODP stands for Olympic. Olympic = international. International = calendar year.

(Yes, the International Community switched back to calendar year)


Now we're stuck. When the US went from calendar year to school year, we moved the "born after" date from January 1st to the prior August 1st, i.e.: 1980 teams (birth dates of 1/1/80 to 12/31/80), became 79-80 teams (birth dates of 8/1/79 to 7/31/80). It just meant you could all of a sudden add players to your team who were six months older.

To go back to calendar year would me reversing the process - which would mean virtually destroying every club team. [/b][/quote]
Every other Country went back to Calendar year and did not destroy anything! In my humble opinion US youth Soccer should do the same, regardless of what Clubs it might hurt.

Originally posted by toti@Jun 29 2005, 02:05 PM
Every other Country went back to Calendar year and did not destroy anything! In my humble opinion US youth Soccer should do the same, regardless of what Clubs it might hurt.
Other countries don't have League like we do at the youth ages, nor are we other countries.

If we went back to calendar year, one of two things would happen:

1) to keep from having to drop any players, every team would have to move up an age group, so all the younger players on the team would be playing up a year.

or

2) Every team would have to cut their current players born between Aug 1 and Dec 31.



Whether you care that this effects thousands of teams throughout the US or not, the majority of people do and would never go with it.

Originally posted by Mike Benjamin+Jun 29 2005, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike Benjamin @ Jun 29 2005, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-toti@Jun 29 2005, 02:05 PM
Every other Country went back to Calendar year and did not destroy anything! In my humble opinion US youth Soccer should do the same, regardless of what Clubs it might hurt.
Other countries don't have League like we do at the youth ages, nor are we other countries.

If we went back to calendar year, one of two things would happen:

1) to keep from having to drop any players, every team would have to move up an age group, so all the younger players on the team would be playing up a year.

or

2) Every team would have to cut their current players born between Aug 1 and Dec 31.



Whether you care that this effects thousands of teams throughout the US or not, the majority of people do and would never go with it. [/b][/quote]
Mike, so my daughter is born on July 19. she is basically the youngest kid in the league.
what you are saying is to bad for her.
this, along with refs having to much discretion is why this sport will always be third world besides june 15 is half way through the year, why not make this the new date. half the kids older, half the kids younger.

Hey No one cares, how about July 18? Would that work for you?

Originally posted by Guest@Jun 30 2005, 07:37 PM
Hey No one cares, how about July 18? Would that work for you?
that would be perfect, except then I would have to complain about something else

Originally posted by Mike Benjamin+Jun 29 2005, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike Benjamin @ Jun 29 2005, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-toti@Jun 29 2005, 02:05 PM
Every other Country went back to Calendar year and did not destroy anything! In my humble opinion US youth Soccer should do the same, regardless of what Clubs it might hurt.
Other countries don't have League like we do at the youth ages, nor are we other countries.

If we went back to calendar year, one of two things would happen:

1) to keep from having to drop any players, every team would have to move up an age group, so all the younger players on the team would be playing up a year.

or

2) Every team would have to cut their current players born between Aug 1 and Dec 31.



Whether you care that this effects thousands of teams throughout the US or not, the majority of people do and would never go with it. [/b][/quote]
Mike, what do you mean other Countries don't have league like we do?
I'm very familiar with the youth system in other countries and I don't understand what you wrote. I agree that in other countries when a youth player signs for a team, that player can't "guest play" for anyone or that there is no training or Club fees for the players, unless they attend private camps or what they call "soccer schools". Please don't get upset I'm just giving my opinion, I never wrote in my previous post if I cared or not.

Originally posted by toti@Jul 6 2005, 09:01 PM
Mike, what do you mean other Countries don't have league like we do?
I'm very familiar with the youth system in other countries and I don't understand what you wrote. I agree that in other countries when a youth player signs for a team, that player can't "guest play" for anyone or that there is no training or Club fees for the players, unless they attend private camps or what they call "soccer schools". Please don't get upset I'm just giving my opinion, I never wrote in my previous post if I cared or not.
I am not aware of any other country that has an organized youth athletic system anywhere near the size we do. ALL other countries of which I am aware do not start organized youth soccer until the U14 age, and then the system is run by their National or Professional Leagues.

There, your do it their way, or you can do it somewhere else. So when they went back to the calendar year, they rearranged all their teams. They were in most cases rearranging dozens of teams. Not hundreds, but dozens. With some exceptions in the few really large countries, they may have done hundreds of teams.

Here in the United States, ultimately the parents are the deciding factor, as they are the ones paying the bills. Without question the vast majority of those who have any say here, are not going to want to just reorganize all the teams. And unlike ANYWHERE else in the world, we would be reorganizing THOUSANDS of teams nation wide. There are this year over 2000 teams in CSL alone - and that doesn't count the rest of Cal South, let alone Cal North or the rest of the nation.

Your point was "why can't we do it like other countries?" - and my point was why we can't, and why we shouldn't.

what if you have a child born July 30th? will they still be mandated to play the older division even though she missed the born after by 2 days?

Yes, duh. How many times do you need to be told? This is not rocket science! If it's such a big deal for you - make sure to have your next child born at the time that suits you better. Unbelievable! :o

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 19 2005, 06:39 AM
what if you have a child born July 30th? will they still be mandated to play the older division even though she missed the born after by 2 days?
Just have your dd play in the division CalSouth/USYSA says she should. It will probably be better for her to play with the older girls anyway. Many kids with b-days just on the other side of the line "play up" for some or all of their time playing soccer anyway.

Life is eaiser when you just roll with it!

If they went by calendar year you would have kids born a day or two before, if they changed it to July you would have kids born a day or two before, obviously somebody has to be the youngest on a team.

As they get older, the age difference becomes less critical, and they mature and grow at different rates anyway. In high school, they play 14 -18 year olds all together and the stronger players of any age will shine.

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 19 2005, 07:39 AM
what if you have a child born July 30th? will they still be mandated to play the older division even though she missed the born after by 2 days?
Yep.

Originally posted by Mike Benjamin+Jun 27 2005, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike Benjamin @ Jun 27 2005, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Guest@Jun 27 2005, 12:53 PM
Question. Why are birthdates for the season set at August 1st if the new season is July? Is this mandated by USYSA? Can CYSA-S or CSL modify this rule?
Why are birthdates for the season set at August 1st if the new season is July?

The new season technically starts Sept. 1, not in July. Tournaments are allowed to start accepting the new regisration on August 1st, and a few tournament have started to accept them at the end of July, and haven't been prevented by CYSA-S.

Back in the early 90s (I don't remember the year), the International Soccer Community decided that we would go from a calendar year for the birth dates, to a "school year", and decided upon August 1st to July 31st. The next year, USYS followed to be in line with the International decision.

Is this mandated by USYSA?

Yes.

Can CYSA-S or CSL modify this rule?

No. [/b][/quote]
The new season may technically start on Sept. 1, but realistically it actually starts in April right after State Cup. I hate the age identity confusion this causes at tournaments between State Cup and Aug 1. Why not roll the teams over into the new age group right after State Cup? Why is it so important to wait until Aug 1?

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 24 2005, 05:28 PM
The new season may technically start on Sept. 1, but realistically it actually starts in April right after State Cup. I hate the age identity confusion this causes at tournaments between State Cup and Aug 1. Why not roll the teams over into the new age group right after State Cup? Why is it so important to wait until Aug 1?
I don't know where you get the idea that the new season "realistically" starts in April.

CYSA-S does not even start accepting the registrations for the new season from League Registrars until June 1st, and teams are not allowed to use them for tournaments or anything else until July 1st.

Originally posted by Mike Benjamin+Jul 25 2005, 12:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike Benjamin @ Jul 25 2005, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Guest@Jul 24 2005, 05:28 PM
The new season may technically start on Sept. 1, but realistically it actually starts in April right after State Cup. I hate the age identity confusion this causes at tournaments between State Cup and Aug 1. Why not roll the teams over into the new age group right after State Cup? Why is it so important to wait until Aug 1?
I don't know where you get the idea that the new season "realistically" starts in April.

CYSA-S does not even start accepting the registrations for the new season from League Registrars until June 1st, and teams are not allowed to use them for tournaments or anything else until July 1st.[/b][/quote]
Mike,

The poster is correct in regards to players changing teams after tryouts. Most teams hold tryouts shortly after they are eliminated from State Cup. My younger dd has been playing for her new team since mid-February. Generally after tryouts the “new” team practices and plays together to prepare for the upcoming season.

I understand your point and that is very much true regarding returning players and registrations and player cards. What is confusing to a lot of parents is the fact that once State Cup is over the “coaches” treat the end of State Cup as the end of the “year” and anything after State Cup as preparation for the next “year”.

All new players to the team play as “guests” until the team registration takes place. After the team is registered they are then an official team but from the parents view point the team has been playing together since tryouts.

My older dd is on a very stable team and they did not have tryouts. Their season is very much like how you said…they finish State Cup in mid-May then played an end of the year tournament on Memorial Day weekend, take off the month of June and everything is cool. However the youngers are a totally different situation especially due to how early State Cup finishes and spring soccer too.

Thanks for your help on this and I hope this clears up how the youngers parents look at the season. Your insight is very much appreciated and please correct this perception of the season if this is wrong.

Originally posted by just a member@Jul 25 2005, 10:13 AM

Mike,

The poster is correct in regards to players changing teams after tryouts. Most teams hold tryouts shortly after they are eliminated from State Cup. My younger dd has been playing for her new team since mid-February. Generally after tryouts the “new” team practices and plays together to prepare for the upcoming season.

I understand your point and that is very much true regarding returning players and registrations and player cards. What is confusing to a lot of parents is the fact that once State Cup is over the “coaches” treat the end of State Cup as the end of the “year” and anything after State Cup as preparation for the next “year”.

All new players to the team play as “guests” until the team registration takes place. After the team is registered they are then an official team but from the parents view point the team has been playing together since tryouts.

My older dd is on a very stable team and they did not have tryouts. Their season is very much like how you said…they finish State Cup in mid-May then played an end of the year tournament on Memorial Day weekend, take off the month of June and everything is cool. However the youngers are a totally different situation especially due to how early State Cup finishes and spring soccer too.

Thanks for your help on this and I hope this clears up how the youngers parents look at the season. Your insight is very much appreciated and please correct this perception of the season if this is wrong.
The problem is the misuse of the word "realistically". "Perceived" would be accurate under your point, but not "realistically". The base word of the latter is "real", and no matter how you want to explain this situation, the "real" new season starts September 1st, with tournaments being allowed to start using new season passes in late July.

Sociopaths might treat your home as their personal free-of-charge shopping center, but you'd probably agree that isn't the reality. Just because the coaches treat the end of State Cup as the end of the season - don't make it so.

Originally posted by Mike Benjamin+Jul 26 2005, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike Benjamin @ Jul 26 2005, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-just a member@Jul 25 2005, 10:13 AM

Mike,

The poster is correct in regards to players changing teams after tryouts.* Most teams hold tryouts shortly after they are eliminated from State Cup.* My younger dd has been playing for her new team since mid-February.* Generally after tryouts the “new” team practices and plays together to prepare for the upcoming season.

I understand your point and that is very much true regarding returning players and registrations and player cards.* What is confusing to a lot of parents is the fact that once State Cup is over the “coaches” treat the end of State Cup as the end of the “year” and anything after State Cup as preparation for the next “year”.

All new players to the team play as “guests” until the team registration takes place.* After the team is registered they are then an official team but from the parents view point the team has been playing together since tryouts.

My older dd is on a very stable team and they did not have tryouts.* Their season is very much like how you said…they finish State Cup in mid-May then played an end of the year tournament on Memorial Day weekend, take off the month of June and everything is cool.* However the youngers are a totally different situation especially due to how early State Cup finishes and spring soccer too.

Thanks for your help on this and I hope this clears up how the youngers parents look at the season.* Your insight is very much appreciated and please correct this perception of the season if this is wrong.
The problem is the misuse of the word "realistically". "Perceived" would be accurate under your point, but not "realistically". The base word of the latter is "real", and no matter how you want to explain this situation, the "real" new season starts September 1st, with tournaments being allowed to start using new season passes in late July.

Sociopaths might treat your home as their personal free-of-charge shopping center, but you'd probably agree that isn't the reality. Just because the coaches treat the end of State Cup as the end of the season - don't make it so. [/b][/quote]
What a copout response! In your administrative “real world” there sure is a substantial amount of player and coach movement after State Cup that is apparently oblivious to the 4-6 months still remaining in the "current" season.

Mike,
why wouldn't this calender year thing get grandfathered in? Instead of ripping up any current teams, you could start up the Under 8's using calender year birth dates and go from there... :beer:

That wouldn't be fair as my U8 son's birthday is December 25th!

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 27 2005, 04:51 AM
Mike,
why wouldn't this calender year thing get grandfathered in? Instead of ripping up any current teams, you could start up the Under 8's using calender year birth dates and go from there... :beer:
That might be a possibility. The only kink I see here is that you would have one set of people, like the one who posted immediately following your post, whose child is born in that August 1st through December 31st section that would be playing at the "ultra-young" age group with the last 8/1-7/31 year group.

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 27 2005, 08:47 AM
That wouldn't be fair as my U8 son's birthday is December 25th!
Well my U8 sons birthday is July 27th. How fair is that?

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 27 2005, 08:47 AM
That wouldn't be fair as my U8 son's birthday is December 25th!
My sons birthday is December 26th and I'm all for the Calendar year, he plays up anyway.