Here's what I know:

Friday:

U16's:

Surf 2 ISC 2

Pats 3 - Real So Cal 2

U19's:

ISC 2 Surf 2

Saturday:

U16's

ISC 2 - Pats 0

Surf 2 - RSC 2

U19's

ISC 4 - Pats 2

Here's what I know:

Friday:

U16's:

Surf 2 ISC 2

Pats 3 - Real So Cal 2

U19's:

ISC 2 Surf 2

Saturday:

U16's

ISC 2 - Pats 0

Surf 2 - RSC 2

U19's

ISC 4 - Pats 2


Friday:
16's
Pats 2 - RSC 1

19's
Pats 1 - RSC 3 (was told)

Sat:
19's
ISC 4 - Pats 4

Friday:
16's
Pats 2 - RSC 1

19's
Pats 1 - RSC 3 (was told)

Sat:
19's
ISC 4 - Pats 4

Correct, and the Pats 16s vs. ISC 16s was ISC 2-0 Pats. The U18 game was interesting with Pats being down 3-1 to ISC at half. Pats came back and tied it up with seconds left 4-4. Very interesting and exciting second half.

I know this is supposed to be a developmental league, and I think over time and with more games there will be some great soccer to watch. Many college coaches there today. As all the boys get to know each other and play more together, it will all come together.

Correct, and the Pats 16s vs. ISC 16s was ISC 2-0 Pats. The U18 game was interesting with Pats being down 3-1 to ISC at half. Pats came back and tied it up with seconds left 4-4. Very interesting and exciting second half.

I know this is supposed to be a developmental league, and I think over time and with more games there will be some great soccer to watch. Many college coaches there today. As all the boys get to know each other and play more together, it will all come together.

Sorry bout the incorrect score on the 19's.

I concur...this is supposed to be a developmental league. So if this is the spirit of the program, why is DA, the former Pat residency player playing down at U16? In residency, NT players and teams play up (see Nike Friendlies) correct? I concede it is well within the rules but unlike JF of the Surf ( the player KeepersRule calls the best forward in Southern Cal in the U17) it appears that Surf has it's players interest more in mind by having JF an early 91 play up rather than play for a silly short term result. Remember, the idea behind the program is to localize the Bradenton approach.

I just find it interesting the "player development" approaches Surf/ISC/RSC and the Pats are taking in building these teams. ISC is effectively a team of 91 and 92's with not a single U17 player rostered. Surf again appears to to be balanced between the two playing years (U16 and U17's). And RSC is also split between the two with a significant number of U16's 91's . And then we have the Pats, effectively a U17 Premier team of 91's with only a single player (non-starter) from their U16 team and a Residency player effectively playing down.

So which U16's players in the above Developmental Academy group are getting stretched? You know, in the interest of development, in this Academy DEVELOPMENT league? Or is the emphasis still on the RESULT and all of the chest pounding and bragging rights that go along with saying you won?
One last thing...IMHO the idea of a National Championship at the HDC at the end of the season only fosters this mentality and compels clubs to take this result oriented approach.

Thoughts?

Bubba, I do not know who you are or what your motives are, but why do you have such hostility towards Pats? I do not see anyone else on here specifically and continiously attacking one Club like you. There must be some deep suppressed reason, like you or your son was not accepted by Pats so you went somewhere else, and I am guessing here but I would say ISC, and you cannot let that pent up anger and resentment go because it still pains you. An analogy would be how a spouse speaks of their ex-spouse after a bitter divorce. Lastly, and most to the point, based on some of your past postings, I would guess that it is to get a reaction out of Blondie. All I have ever seen Blondie post are positive things, although at times, biased.

I just find it interesting the "player development" approaches Surf/ISC/RSC and the Pats are taking in building these teams. ISC is effectively a team of 91 and 92's with not a single U17 player rostered. Surf again appears to to be balanced between the two. And RSC is also balanced between the two with a significant number of U16's 91's . And then we have the Pats.....effectively a U17 team of 91's players with only a single player (non-starter) from their U16 team and a Residency player effectively playing down.

This isn't really fair. ISC has no U17 players to roster (ISC barely had enough U16 players on Saturday). And while I think it's a fair point about the Pats Bradenton player, I don't think it's really fair to knock that Pats for using players in the age group that the USSF delineated. Besides, their U16 team was a silver elite team, how many of them belong on the academy team.

One last thing...IMHO the idea of a National Championship at the HDC at the end of the season only fosters this mentality.

I agree. We have several showcases already. Travel costs are already high. There's not real good reason we need the HDC National Championship. Although the reason for it is probably because there's been some resistance to the Academy concept because we eliminate the National Cup (I've heard that this is what has kept the Texas clubs away).

Sorry bout the incorrect score on the 19's.

I concur...this is supposed to be a developmental league. So if this is the spirit of the program, why is DA, the former Pat residency player playing down at U16? In residency, NT players and teams play up (see Nike Friendlies) correct? I concede it is well within the rules but unlike JF of the Surf ( the player KeepersRule calls the best forward in Southern Cal in the U17) it appears that Surf has it's players interest more in mind by having JF an early 91 play up rather than play for a silly short term result. Remember, the idea behind the program is to localize the Bradenton approach.

I just find it interesting the "player development" approaches Surf/ISC/RSC and the Pats are taking in building these teams. ISC is effectively a team of 91 and 92's with not a single U17 player rostered. Surf again appears to to be balanced between the two playing years (U16 and U17's). And RSC is also split between the two with a significant number of U16's 91's . And then we have the Pats, effectively a U17 Premier team of 91's with only a single player (non-starter) from their U16 team and a Residency player effectively playing down.

So which U16's players in the above Developmental Academy group are getting stretched? You know, in the interest of development, in this Academy DEVELOPMENT league? Or is the emphasis still on the RESULT and all of the chest pounding and bragging rights that go along with saying you won?
One last thing...IMHO the idea of a National Championship at the HDC at the end of the season only fosters this mentality and compels clubs to take this result oriented approach.

Thoughts?

First of all, DA was in residency when he was with ISC, not Pats. JF from Surf asked to play up as he was not happy with TB at the time and told the powers that be at Surf that if he wasn't bumped up, he was leaving. A little different. Also Surf has a true U18 team and a true U16 team. Their U17 team is not playing Academy. I thought the premise of this academy was for the 89/90s to be on the U18's and the 91/92's to be on the U16s. I believe that is what the Pats are doing, and we just played ISC's U18s and it's the same team Gilbert had. No one playing up that I can see with the majority being 89s. Also was told that because this is Developmental, we will see players come up from the '91 team now and then.

Look we've only trained as separate entities for one week. We hadn't even played in a game as split teams yet. So as time goes on and each team becomes more comfortable, things will settle in and players will be moved around when necessary. This was just the first weekend. So to answer your question, I believe you may be critiquing the entire process before anyone has had a chance to have a few weeks of training/games under their belts. And if DA wants to play up, he can play up. Don't know, but maybe he wanted to play with his friends?? As far as 16s being developed? That's each player's own decision. Some wanted to play Academy, some did not and wanted to play HS. So the Pats let them make their own decision unlike some other clubs.

First of all, DA was in residency when he was with ISC, not Pats. JF from Surf asked to play up as he was not happy with TB at the time and told the powers that be at Surf that if he wasn't bumped up, he was leaving. A little different. Also Surf has a true U18 team and a true U16 team. Their U17 team is not playing Academy. I thought the premise of this academy was for the 89/90s to be on the U18's and the 91/92's to be on the U16s. I believe that is what the Pats are doing, and we just played ISC's U18s and it's the same team Gilbert had. No one playing up that I can see with the majority being 89s. Also was told that because this is Developmental, we will see players come up from the '91 team now and then.

Look we've only trained as separate entities for one week. We hadn't even played in a game as split teams yet. So as time goes on and each team becomes more comfortable, things will settle in and players will be moved around when necessary. This was just the first weekend. So to answer your question, I believe you may be critiquing the entire process before anyone has had a chance to have a few weeks of training/games under their belts. And if DA wants to play up, he can play up. Don't know, but maybe he wanted to play with his friends?? As far as 16s being developed? That's each player's own decision. Some wanted to play Academy, some did not and wanted to play HS. So the Pats let them make their own decision unlike some other clubs.

DA does not want to challenge himself to become an even better player?

Don't know who he is but if he was in residency and wants to continue to improve he needs to be pushed this in all likelyhood will not happen while playing in his own age group, he has already proven he is a stand out there.
Pats advised him of this or are they so kid friendly that they will let him make poor decisions?

Look we've only trained as separate entities for one week. We hadn't even played in a game as split teams yet. So as time goes on and each team becomes more comfortable, things will settle in and players will be moved around when necessary. This was just the first weekend. So to answer your question, I believe you may be critiquing the entire process before anyone has had a chance to have a few weeks of training/games under their belts.

What does this have to do with anything being discussed? The weekend results don't matter, what matters is the decisions being made by the clubs. There was not one mention of the results this weekend being indicative of anything.

And if DA wants to play up, he can play up. Don't know, but maybe he wanted to play with his friends??

This decision is left to the player? The goal of this league is about serious development and if the club isn't putting the player on the team that helps his development the most, the club is failing the player. At this level, with these goals, the club has to make these decisions. AYSO was a long time ago.

As far as 16s being developed? That's each player's own decision. Some wanted to play Academy, some did not and wanted to play HS. So the Pats let them make their own decision unlike some other clubs.

Who? I kind of curious which clubs aren't allowing any choice.

Nomads.
It's academy only. No HS play allowed.

Distain for the clubs ethics yes...

Again, I am throwing out for dialogue the different approaches the aforementioned clubs are taking for the Academy program.

Let me throw out another name on the Pat U"16" Academy team. CR. A perennial Region IV ODP player, with experience competing against the best the country has to offer. Yet the Pats in their infinite wisdom have him playing down. So is he being stretched? Again...in the interest of his development. Or is having him rostered on a team to win the primary objective?

So if I am following the argument correctly, not more than one player on the Pat U16's qualify to be stretched and or developed? Surely there has to be a contradiction in the Pat pitch to these player's families when they took their registration money.

Nomads.
It's academy only. No HS play allowed.

why should any club waste their time with a player not totally committed to further his development?

This decision is left to the player? The goal of this league is about serious development and if the club isn't putting the player on the team that helps his development the most, the club is failing the player. At this level, with these goals, the club has to make these decisions. AYSO was a long time ago.

Ultimately, it is always the player's decision to make. And yes, he can be advised, and I'm sure he has been, and as we've been told, the teams can have academy players and developmental players. Some will play up, some will stay their own age, and some will play down. They will intermix when necessary, and that is up to the coach and the player to make that decision. Same for ISC. DE will advise and promote those he feels have the talent and skill to play where he thinks they need to play.



Who? I kind of curious which clubs aren't allowing any choice.[/quote]

ISC is not allowing a choice and DE has been very public about that insisting/demanding his players NOT play high school at all. His players were not given a choice.

DA does not want to challenge himself to become an even better player?

Don't know who he is but if he was in residency and wants to continue to improve he needs to be pushed this in all likelyhood will not happen while playing in his own age group, he has already proven he is a stand out there.
Pats advised him of this or are they so kid friendly that they will let him make poor decisions?

Don't know if they did or did not advise him, but isn't that between the club, the player, and his family? Unless you ask DA himself or his family, you truly won't know the answer. Just like Fitzy asking to play up even before Surf became an academy. Every player has their own career to handle. They can be advised by their club, and it is up to them whether they take that club's advice. ISC does the same thing. DE will make recommendations to a player,in fact I can give one example from last season where a player was asked to go to Germany for trials by DE, and the player and his family said no. Or how about the players who lost their NCAA eligibility because DE did NOT advise them of the consequences by his promoting professional trials overseas? Was DE kid friendly so that he would let them make poor uneducated decisions about their college or pro careers? Or was it being self-serving?

Distain for the clubs ethics yes...

Again, I am throwing out for dialogue the different approaches the aforementioned clubs are taking for the Academy program.

Let me throw out another name on the Pat U"16" Academy team. CR. A perennial Region IV ODP player, with experience competing against the best the country has to offer. Yet the Pats in their infinite wisdom have him playing down. So is he being stretched? Again...in the interest of his development. Or is having him rostered on a team to win the primary objective?

So if I am following the argument correctly, not more than one player on the Pat U16's qualify to be stretched and or developed? Surely there has to be a contradiction in the Pat pitch to these player's families when they took their registration money.

First of all, no registration money was taken. We don't pay. And do you really want to bring up a club's ethics when you play for ISC? We could start a whole new posting just on that subject alone.

Second, for now the club just split the 90's to play up, and the 91's to play U16 for now. Eventually, 92's will be called up, and 91's will play up and they can be intermixed. Just because a player is registered on one team doesn't mean he has to play JUST for that team (unless you're an older. Can't play down)

Third, the Pats had the player-base to allow both 17 Premier teams to be split and mingled with some of their 16's and U18's. There are only four U18's playing on the '90 team as the rest of the U19 Pats players wanted to finish out their high school season, and finish their last year playing National Cup. They were given a choice, and as strange as it may sound to you Bubba or Robert, that's refreshing for once. A club who lets the player make his own choice for his soccer career and is not dictated to, threatened, conjoled, and strong-armed into doing what that club/DOC wants.

Fourth, Bubbalouie you and I have had conversations about the players you have mentioned, and I know what your own opinion of them is. In your soccer expertise that your profess on this chatsite, do you believe they should be playing up based on your opinion? Or is your attack of the club's philosphy based on the fact that a player had been in residency back in 2006, or a player has been in ODP on the 91s for years and those coaches decisions? Maybe different coaches/clubs see different things, and base their choices on that.

First of all, no registration money was taken.

Really? The Pats U16 Silver Elite team player families weren't charged?
That is the team I refer to as to the low numbers allowed to be stretched and thereby "developed".

Eventually, 92's will be called up, and 91's will play up and they can be intermixed.

Sure they will. If not now...when?



Fourth, Bubbalouie you and I have had conversations about the players you have mentioned, and I know what your own opinion of them is.

If I formed an opinion on them, it has only been because of what you told me about them. I never watched your team play all Premier season.

Look, I am arguing that the best way to develop players in the spirit of the new program is to stretch them. Just like your own son being asked to play with the U19 Pat Premier team this fall.

Personally I am thrilled that my kid gets to play against a former NT player in DA as well the ODP Regional player in CR. But I submit the ISC 16's get more from being challenged and playing against these Pat players than these guys playing against a bunch of 92's. IMHO, its a disservice to the aforementioned players albeit somewhat embarrassing. I just can't find a single argument for these players development to have them play down....unless the intent and focus is on the "W". And that is contrary to the spirit of the Academy program.

But then again, if what you have told me is true on how DA game has fallen off or CR's propensity to constantly miss his PK's and your critique of his play in the middle during the Premier season, then maybe I am mistaken. Maybe the Pat coaches have it right and they belong on the team they have been assigned.

Really? The Pats U16 Silver Elite team player families weren't charged?
That is the team I refer to as to the low numbers allowed to be stretched and thereby "developed".



Sure they will. If not now...when?



If I formed an opinion on them, it has only been because of what you told me about them. I never watched your team play all Premier season.

Look, I am arguing that the best way to develop players in the spirit of the new program is to stretch them. Just like your own son being asked to play with the U19 Pat Premier team this fall.

Personally I am thrilled that my kid gets to play against a former NT player in DA as well the ODP Regional player in CR. But I submit the ISC 16's get more from being challenged and playing against these Pat players than these guys playing against a bunch of 92's. IMHO, its a disservice to the aforementioned players albeit somewhat embarrassing. I just can't find a single argument for these players development to have them play down....unless the intent and focus is on the "W". And that is contrary to the spirit of the Academy program.

But then again, if what you have told me is true on how DA game has fallen off or CR's propensity to constantly miss his PK's and your critique of his play in the middle during the Premier season, then maybe I am mistaken. Maybe the Pat coaches have it right and they belong on the team they have been assigned.

Look everyone knows the only reason ALL of your players are playing Academy League 16 is because there is no 17 team to pull from. If there was, then you and I both know DE would have stacked that team with the same 91's that are now playing Pats 16. You're trying to cast a negative on development of the Pats players because of where they're playing. You should be estatic and happy that the 17s are gone and your kid and others on the 16's are playing in this Academy league at all.

Ultimately, it is always the player's decision to make.

It shouldn't be. The player makes the choice whether to play academy, but once there, it should be the academy's decision, with input from the player, but it's the academy that has final say.

Does the high school player have final say whether he plays varsity or JV? Doe the Manchester United player have final say whether he plays for the big boys or the youth teams or reserves? Should be the same with the academies.

ISC is not allowing a choice and DE has been very public about that insisting/demanding his players NOT play high school at all. His players were not given a choice.

Now you're just outright lying.

Look everyone knows the only reason ALL of your players are playing Academy League 16 is because there is no 17 team to pull from. If there was, then you and I both know DE would have stacked that team with the same 91's that are now playing Pats 16. You're trying to cast a negative on development of the Pats players because of where they're playing. You should be estatic and happy that the 17s are gone and your kid and others on the 16's are playing in this Academy league at all.

I suspect his kid would be playing Academy league regardless.

But I do agree that the reason there are no U17 players on the team is because there was no U17 team to pick from.

It shouldn't be. The player makes the choice whether to play academy, but once there, it should be the academy's decision, with input from the player, but it's the academy that has final say.

Does the high school player have final say whether he plays varsity or JV? Doe the Manchester United player have final say whether he plays for the big boys or the youth teams or reserves? Should be the same with the academies.



Now you're just outright lying.

Not lying Rev. You need to see the emails and/or contracts that were originally given out to the players. DE was very insistant that ALL players would play only Academy League, and as I've heard personally his speech less than 6 months before the club went academy and he stated the same thing to our team, I guess I would have first-hand knowledge.

I also respectfully disagreee with you. A player does have a choice whether he plays JV or Varsity, and that is, he doesn't play at all. His choice whether he wants to play high school, academy league, club, Manchester Utd. Again, the player ALWAYS has the first choice of how his soccer career goes. That is why our team left ISC. Our boys made a choice collectively that the perspective and philosophy of what DE was implementing was not what they wanted for themselves or for their team. So, they made a choice. They moved.

I suspect his kid would be playing Academy league regardless.

But I do agree that the reason there are no U17 players on the team is because there was no U17 team to pick from.

Yes, his kid would. He's an outstanding player, but I would suspect that many others would not who are currently being given that chance they would otherwise not have had. But having been with DE and his thought-process, I also know if our team had stayed, he would have split the team up between 90 and 91s just like other clubs are doing, including Surf, Arsenal, Nomads. And you would have seen a few 91s playing up possibly, but with the talent his current U18/19 team has (Gilbert's old team), there would not have been that many. Most of the 91s would have played on Bubba's kids' team with a spattering of the current ISC players. So, would DE have been following the developmental aspect of this league if he had done the same thing? Is Arsenal, RSC, Surf, Nomads??

Visitor: How many 90's from this past season's U17 team are playing on the U18 academy team with the 89s from the U19 team? How many 91s are playing down on the U16 academy team? And how many stayed on your current U17 (original players ONLY, not the ones TB added after) to just play league, tournaments and national cup? I bet you the percentage is about the same. How many 91's are playing up for Collin on the U18 academy team?

RSC: As they do not have a U18/19 Premier team, they had to have their entire U17 Premier team play up as the U18 Academy Team. So, I would estimate their current U16 Premier team is also the majority of the U16 Academy team.

Arsenal: How many current U18 Premier players will be playing U18 Academy? The entire team? Or is it a mix of U18 and U17 90s? Is Arsenal's DOC having the 91s on his current U17 Premier team play in U16? I would bet a martini that he is.

This league is supposed to be out developing all of the players, and as USSoccer implements more and more of their training program into the system, all of the kinks will iron out. Rome was not built in a day, and this league, and these teams did not have much time to put it all together. So, the teams you see now, may change over the next 4-6 months with players being brought on, mixed around, bumped up, etc. That's the philospy behind the league.

Not lying Rev. You need to see the emails and/or contracts that were originally given out to the players. DE was very insistant that ALL players would play only Academy League, and as I've heard personally his speech less than 6 months before the club went academy and he stated the same thing to our team, I guess I would have first-hand knowledge.

By the time the Academy started you were long gone. I have more up to date first hand knowledge. Two of the U16s are playing high school.

What's retarded about this discussion is that there's no way anyone can prevent the kids from playing high school. You can't do both academy and high school, so how can you punish the kid for playing high school? Dropping them from the Academy team? DE is not even in a position to give the kids the choice, it's given by the Academy League. The Pats have the same restrictions.

I also respectfully disagreee with you. A player does have a choice whether he plays JV or Varsity, and that is, he doesn't play at all.

Duh. I said as much (did you miss this: "The player makes the choice whether to play academy"?). The kid has a choice whether or not he plays high school/academy/Manchester United. Once in those systems, his choice disappears. Or it should if the organization is serious.

Yes, his kid would.

Then why imply he wouldn't make it? Quite frankly, it would've been a travesty if he didn't make it under those circumstances.

He's an outstanding player, but I would suspect that many others would not who are currently being given that chance they would otherwise not have had. But having been with DE and his thought-process, I also know if our team had stayed, he would have split the team up between 90 and 91s just like other clubs are doing, including Surf, Arsenal, Nomads. And you would have seen a few 91s playing up possibly, but with the talent his current U18/19 team has (Gilbert's old team), there would not have been that many. Most of the 91s would have played on Bubba's kids' team with a spattering of the current ISC players. So, would DE have been following the developmental aspect of this league if he had done the same thing? Is Arsenal, RSC, Surf, Nomads??

You do realize I'm agreeing with you on this point? Well, you probably don't, but that's not surprising.

By the time the Academy started you were long gone. I have more up to date first hand knowledge. Two of the U16s are playing high school.

What's retarded about this discussion is that there's no way anyone can prevent the kids from playing high school. You can't do both academy and high school, so how can you punish the kid for playing high school? Dropping them from the Academy team? DE is not even in a position to give the kids the choice, it's given by the Academy League. The Pats have the same restrictions.



Duh. I said as much (did you miss this: "The player makes the choice whether to play academy"?). The kid has a choice whether or not he plays high school/academy/Manchester United. Once in those systems, his choice disappears. Or it should if the organization is serious.



Then why imply he wouldn't make it? Quite frankly, it would've been a travesty if he didn't make it under those circumstances.



You do realize I'm agreeing with you on this point? Well, you probably don't, but that's not surprising.

Actually, the Academy was meeting and being put together when we were still playing National Cup with ISC. DE in his meetings with our team explained his philosophy about playing high school and how he did not like it and it was detrimental to the elite player's career.

The Academy is not the one who says no to high school. They encourage it, and we've had this discussion on this forum about this before. CIF-SS has the rule about not playing in another league while participating in high school soccer. A deal was made as we all know for the four at the time, now five clubs to play CSL Premier instead of high school.

I'm glad you're agreeing with me. I have one last question. How many players from ISC's U16 Red team are currently playing on the ISC Academy U16 team? Or is it only the U16 Black team with a spattering of Red players? I do know you have your old goalie back sharing time, but other than him, who else from the Red team gets to be developed?

Actually, the Academy was meeting and being put together when we were still playing National Cup with ISC. DE in his meetings with our team explained his philosophy about playing high school and how he did not like it and it was detrimental to the elite player's career.

The Academy is not the one who says no to high school. They encourage it, and we've had this discussion on this forum about this before. CIF-SS has the rule about not playing in another league while participating in high school soccer. A deal was made as we all know for the four at the time, now five clubs to play CSL Premier instead of high school.

I'm glad you're agreeing with me. I have one last question. How many players from ISC's U16 Red team are currently playing on the ISC Academy U16 team? Or is it only the U16 Black team with a spattering of Red players? I do know you have your old goalie back sharing time, but other than him, who else from the Red team gets to be developed?


About as many of the Pateadores U17 Blue Premier team players attending the Nike Friendlies.
But back to the topic.....If the Pats were truly all about player development and less about recruiting teams, I ask again, why is a former Residency player and a perrenial Regional ODP player playing down rather than be stretched in the interest of their "continued" development (ah...there is that word again). What value is there in playing down? I still haven't heard a plausible answer but rather excuses how the program is new....the kinks need to be ironed out yaddda yaddda....

About as many of the Pateadores U17 Blue Premier team players attending the Nike Friendlies. Why is it majority of the home grown "Premier" Pat players are being left behind with the Pats being represented by a team formed and developed by another club? After all, they play Premier too no? And I'll bet they paid full boat. So is this loyal of the club to shortchanged the Pat kids with longer tenure than the Irvine team that came over?

But back to the topic.....If the Pats were truly all about player development and less about recruiting teams, I ask again, why is a former Residency player and a perrenial Regional ODP player playing down rather than be stretched in the interest of their "continued" development (ah...there is that word again). What value is there in playing down? I still haven't heard a plausible answer but rather excuses how the program is new....the kinks need to be ironed out yaddda yaddda....

Once again Bubbalouie you have it ALLLLLLLL wrong. The Pats Blue team could not come up with the money to go to Nike. As you know when our team was nice enough to borrow your son last year to go to Nike, and I personally took him myself, it is a very expensive trip. Only some of their players could fund the trip and as such SOME of their players are going with us. So, get your facts straight instead of throwing out mistruths to slander a club that your own son came from.

I would ask the same question of ISC about development and less about recruiting entire teams and players, and you Bubbalouie know alot about how many players you have recruited to your 16 team over the last year an a half. You have earned the title: Recruiting King of OC. How many players did you recruit away from VUSC, WCFC, Pats? Did ISC develop those players? How many original players since the team's inception are still on your U16 team? Or how about the team that doesn't even train on ISC fields, but has the ISC name only from the Inland Empire. Oh that's right? They use to be a Celtic team or Arsenal team and now call themselves ISC. Or the MVSC team ISC took to save their butts so they wouldn't get relegated down to silver a few years back? Yeah, Yeah I know ISC doesn't recruit entire teams, they only develop. Maybe it's time you pulled your head out of the clouds.

And as far as DA or CR playing up, they probably will come the next set of games as we've only played on GD weekend of games for God's Sake. What's so, so funny about all of this is the fact that the other teams in this academy are doing the same thing Pats are, but you only want to trash the Pats. In speaking with a Surf mom, their U16 team is a combo team of their best 91's from their U17 team and a few 92s. They have one 91 playing up on U18, Fitzy. They must not be developing their best players according to you. Or how about RSC? I could have sworn I saw several of their U17 three-time National Champ players with all of their awards sewn onto their jerseys playing U16. I guess AB doesn't develop his players either.

I don't know what you're so pissed off about! Your team beat our U16s 2-0, so why the bashing? Let's put it this way, how many of your 16's did DE bump up to develop on his U18 team? I did not see any. And aren't some of your 16's 1991 players? I guess DE isn't developing either.

Honestly, this is just kids' soccer. Bubbalouie I'm a little dissapointed. I always thought you had better character than this.

How many players from ISC's U16 Red team are currently playing on the ISC Academy U16 team? Or is it only the U16 Black team with a spattering of Red players? I do know you have your old goalie back sharing time, but other than him, who else from the Red team gets to be developed?

Not a single player from the Strikers U16Red or U15 teams have been asked to join the Academy Development team !

Not a single player from the Strikers U16Red or U15 teams have been asked to join the Academy Development team !

If true Soccernut, then I guess this entire discussion has been hypocritical on Bubbalouie's part. Just like I thought.

Actually, the Academy was meeting and being put together when we were still playing National Cup with ISC. DE in his meetings with our team explained his philosophy about playing high school and how he did not like it and it was detrimental to the elite player's career.

Key phrase there is "being put together".

DE's ideas about high school play mirror pretty much every top coach in the area.

The Academy is not the one who says no to high school. They encourage it, and we've had this discussion on this forum about this before. CIF-SS has the rule about not playing in another league while participating in high school soccer. A deal was made as we all know for the four at the time, now five clubs to play CSL Premier instead of high school.

Right. The deal that the Academy made to allow CSL play instead of high school. The Academy says no to high school if you play CSL. The point is that the academy vs. high school decision is out of the hands of the clubs that play CSL.

And it's probably not real accurate to say the USSF encourages high school. More like the tolerate it.

I'm glad you're agreeing with me. I have one last question. How many players from ISC's U16 Red team are currently playing on the ISC Academy U16 team? Or is it only the U16 Black team with a spattering of Red players? I do know you have your old goalie back sharing time, but other than him, who else from the Red team gets to be developed?

As Soccernut? pointed out, it's none from the Strikers Red or the U15s. I have no defense for the Strikers here. Not that there's a ton of talent there, but there should be a few who deserve a chance. It's one reason why the Strikers ended up with only 2 subs on Sunday. From a selfish point of view, that means more playing time and less competition for the current players, but I don't think wasting Academy spots is what the USSF had in mind.

Once again Bubbalouie you have it ALLLLLLLL wrong. The Pats Blue team could not come up with the money to go to Nike.

That's unfortunate. Perhaps if the Pats hierarchy had offered those kids the same deal to waive their training fees as the Pats offered your team as an inducement, they could of funded their trip and traveled as a team to the event. How many kids were left out?

As you know when our team was nice enough to borrow your son last year to go to Nike, and I personally took him myself, it is a very expensive trip.

And I am forever grateful for you chaperoning him. But remember, your team was scrambling to find defenders so perhaps it was a win - win? Besides, how would your kid's ever of discovered Sonic?


I would ask the same question of ISC about development and less about recruiting entire teams and players, and you Bubbalouie know alot about how many players you have recruited to your 16 team over the last year an a half. You have earned the title: Recruiting King of OC.

Really...what an honor! And I enjoyed assisting JS when he was at ISC as it was our combined effort to build the competitive team it is today.


What's so funny about all of this is the fact that the other teams in this academy are doing the same thing Pats are, but you only want to trash the Pats. In speaking with a Surf mom, their U16 team is a combo team of their best 91's from their U17 team and a few 92s. They have one 91 playing up on U18, Fitzy.

Guess again. I have the match report. I count at least six USYS 16's playing on the Surf 16 Academy team. Pats only one. Surf has at least attempted to have some balance me thinks. And....no national players!

Or how about RSC? I could have sworn I saw several of their U17 three-time National Champ players with all of their awards sewn onto their jerseys playing U16. I guess AB doesn't develop his players either.
/QUOTE]

Sorry....wrong on all counts. The RSC Academy team has only four U17 players competing on the U16 Academy team. One from the RSC U17 Gold team, another from Barcelona Red, yet another from NV Fusion and the fourth from Barca Blue. I spoke to the RSC manager today. He confirmed that there isn't a single U17 player from AB's National championship team. And hey....no National players.

[QUOTE=Blondie]
I don't know what you're so pissed off about! Honestly, this is just kids' soccer. Bubbalouie I'm a little dissapointed. I always thought you had better character than this.

Whose pissed? Way too much drama and emotion for me. I am just saying the Pats are sandbagging at the expense of kids development and the spirit of the program....Where's the harm in that? So lets agree to disagree. And as I said before, whose benefits more, players on teams that are being stretched or National and Regional ODP players on a team playing down?

So Lets Recap:

Pats - All U17 Premier Players w/ a sole true U16 and a National and Regional ODP player rostered.

RSC - Only four U17's with two that are former U17 Premier players in the NV Fusion and Barca Blue players....and...NO National players playing down,

Surf - appears to have a third of their Academy roster as true U16's and no National players (although they do have a 92 ODP Regional player rostered)

ISC - No U17's and no national nor any ODP players. All 91's and 92's

ps...anybody know the composition of the Chivas/Nomads or Arsenal Academy teams?

pleez Or how about RSC? I could have sworn I saw several of their U17 three-time National Champ players with all of their awards sewn onto their jerseys playing U16. I guess AB doesn't develop his players either.


Now Blondie do not start telling lies here. NOT ONE of the RSC 91 players played down this weekend. Their team is playing up and all the players are playing together. You are too funny sometimes!

One boy was cut from the team after Nationals. He now plays for the RSC U17 Gold team, not for AB. He may or may not be on the U16 team

pleez Or how about RSC? I could have sworn I saw several of their U17 three-time National Champ players with all of their awards sewn onto their jerseys playing U16. I guess AB doesn't develop his players either.


Now Blondie do not start telling lies here. NOT ONE of the RSC 91 players played down this weekend. Their team is playing up and all the players are playing together. You are too funny sometimes!

Well, then I am mistaken as I saw boys with multiple sewn patches similar to the 17's we just beat in the Premier championship on the field with the 16s. Maybe they were just kicking the ball around, but it sure did look like they were all warming up together.

That's unfortunate. Perhaps if the Pats hierarchy had offered those kids the same deal to waive their training fees as the Pats offered your team as an inducement, they could of funded their trip and traveled as a team to the event. How many kids were left out?





And I am forever grateful for you chaperoning him. But remember, your team was scrambling to find defenders so perhaps it was a win - win? Besides, how would your kid's ever of discovered Sonic?



Really...what an honor! And I enjoyed assisting JS when he was at ISC as it was our combined effort to build the competitive team it is today.



Guess again. I have the match report. I count at least six USYS 16's playing on the Surf 16 Academy team. Pats only one. Surf has at least attempted to have some balance me thinks. And....no national players!

[quote=Blondie] Or how about RSC? I could have sworn I saw several of their U17 three-time National Champ players with all of their awards sewn onto their jerseys playing U16. I guess AB doesn't develop his players either.
/QUOTE]

Sorry....wrong on all counts. The RSC Academy team has only four U17 players competing on the U16 Academy team. One from the RSC U17 Gold team, another from Barcelona Red, yet another from NV Fusion and the fourth from Barca Blue. I spoke to the RSC manager today. He confirmed that there isn't a single U17 player from AB's National championship team. And hey....no National players.



Whose pissed? Way too much drama and emotion for me. I am just saying the Pats are sandbagging at the expense of kids development and the spirit of the program....Where's the harm in that? So lets agree to disagree. And as I said before, whose benefits more, players on teams that are being stretched or National and Regional ODP players on a team playing down?

So Lets Recap:

Pats - All U17 Premier Players w/ a sole true U16 and a National and Regional ODP player rostered.

RSC - Only four U17's with two that are former U17 Premier players in the NV Fusion and Barca Blue players....and...NO National players playing down,

Surf - appears to have a third of their Academy roster as true U16's and no National players (although they do have a 92 ODP Regional player rostered)

ISC - No U17's and no national nor any ODP players. All 91's and 92's

ps...anybody know the composition of the Chivas/Nomads or Arsenal Academy teams?

Funny, how you don't include your U16 Red team.

I didn't catch all of the game but I did see at least one RSC 16's player with all of the badges sewn onto his kit.

Surf's U17 players...Fitz is playing up on U18 academy...but truely misses his old team..friends the U17s
2 U17s/91's went to play on the U16 academy...one was injured and just rejoined the U16s and the other came right back to the U17's...friend thing again...So 1 91/U17 on 16s academy 1 91/U17 on U18 academy.
The 2 Surf U16 92ODP players should stay on the U16 academy. the U18 academy is mostly the very good 89/90 players and playing time would be limited for those players if they were moved up. they are in a good spot there.

Pats Blue players are livid about being left behind off of Nike Friendlies. I heard Pats White is taking some extra players/subs -Barca players over the Pats blue players that really wanted to go this year...any truth to that?

Nomads U16 academy kept mostly U16 91/92s others not picked- gone
Nomads uses mostly 91/90 from U17 and a few from U18 for
U18 academy-not picked- gone

Surf's U17 players...Fitz is playing up on U18 academy...but truely misses his old team..friends the U17s
2 U17s/91's went to play on the U16 academy...one was injured and just rejoined the U16s and the other came right back to the U17's...friend thing again...So 1 91/U17 on 16s academy 1 91/U17 on U18 academy.
The 2 Surf U16 92ODP players should stay on the U16 academy. the U18 academy is mostly the very good 89/90 players and playing time would be limited for those players if they were moved up. they are in a good spot there.

Pats Blue players are livid about being left behind off of Nike Friendlies. I heard Pats White is taking some extra players/subs -Barca players over the Pats blue players that really wanted to go this year...any truth to that?

Nomads U16 academy kept mostly U16 91/92s others not picked- gone
Nomads uses mostly 91/90 from U17 and a few from U18 for
U18 academy-not picked- gone

Thanks for the update. In regards to Pats Blue being left behind for Nike...only 9 of their players could come up with the money to go. In regards to Bubbalouie's comment that they paid club dues and we did not so that's why they could not come up with the money....Untrue as our team worked off their coaching fees due over a 6 month period. Unlike ISC who increased their younger's dues to cover the olders' free ride on club dues. As far as the Barca player, he transferred over to our team BEFORE league even ended as he was not happy at Barcelona any more. And yes, there is one player from the Blue team who is going with us to Nike as there was a lottery from the 9 players who did want to go, and his name was chosen to be fair. Honestly, we all wanted the other team to go as all the boys have become friends and the parents. It was unfortunate that by the time the airfare and hotel and van money was due, the others could or would not pay. And I am sure that many other teams will have players who cannot attend every out-of-state function because of money, school, or other commitments.

This is an ugly discussion. Too much bashing of specific clubs and too much gossip about specific players. This reminds me too much of the now long-gone soccer sites. I hope that this thread can be relegated to the ethernet sanitary landfill.

Gossip?

Gossip?

From Wikpedia:

For other uses, see Gossip (disambiguation) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossip_%28disambiguation%29).

Gossip consists of casual or idle talk between friends. While ostensibly value neutral, the term often specifically refers to talk of scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandal), slander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel), or schadenfreude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude) relating to known associates of the participants, and discussed in an underhand or clandestine manner. Compare backbiting (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/backbiting).
While gossip forms one of the oldest and (still) the most common means of spreading and sharing facts and views, it also has a reputation for the introduction of errors and other variations into the information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information) thus transmitted. The term also carries implications that the news so transmitted (usually) has a personal or trivial nature. Compare conversation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversation).secret1

Well then, the entire site is gossip.
We read, we chat....chat site.

Well then, the entire site is gossip.
We read, we chat....chat site.

Agree. We hear things from others, see things on the fields, post, and for the most part MOST of us get it right. It's simply information on tournaments, scores, leagues. Then there are others who just like to "stir the pot" either because of envy, jealousy, anger, or for fun because of their own insecurities.

A couple of years ago there 3 to 4 chat sites which focused upon Southern California youth soccer.

SoCalSoccer was the only site through formal and informal polices had restriction on mentioning players explitedly by name, initials, or number.

The other sites without these restrictions are all gone. In large part because they were passing along untruths about people who are not public figures.

Just so we are all clear:

Academy U18s: 1989 or after birthyear
Adademy U16s: 1991 or after birthyear

USSF has made these age groupings to coincide with FIFA's age groupings (ODP does the same).

Seams to me that those who conflate Cal South/CSL age groupings with the FIFA birthyear age groupings are doing so with an intent to deceive and confuse, especially 'cause they do know better. To claim that a player with a 1991 birthdate is "playing down" is disengenous and (knowing the personality involved and his use of multiple nom de plume's) patently fraudulent.

DA or CR (or any other player with a 1991 birthdate) are no more "playing down" than Bubba's kid (also a 1991) is "playing down" when he plays for a U16 team instead of a U17 team during CSL play. Certainly Bubba/Robert/Sage/Contrarian would never permit an over-age player on any roster for which he was responsible!

BTW : Isn't the concept of the Academy program that the bulk of player "development" is to occur during training, not via match play? Coudda swore I read that somewhere: Click here: The Official Site of U.S. Soccer - Development Academy (http://www.ussoccer.com/common/stContent.jsp_168-DevAcadOverview.html) (see program technical specifications). And doesn't that render this whole U18-U16 discussion meaningless? If so, then what is the purpose of this missive other than to bash and create ill-will? Perhaps Bubba-brush's time would be better spent creating and promoting harmony within his own team/club than being so outspokenly jealous about his neighbors' success.

PS. Bubba was correct about my position regarding JF (it is more about respect for his abilities than disrespect for anyone else's), but that was a private conversation not intended for chat site discussion that I had hoped he would have had the courtesy to honor. My bad.

I am Robert, no one else.

I am Robert, no one else.

Kind of hard to tell on this chatsite as certain individuals like to post under numerous names, and you sound alot like Bubbalouie and his philosophical rantings and his other pseudonyms.gathering1

Can I be Bubbalouie too? I feel left out.

I gotta say that Robert's writing style is nothing like Bubbalouie's. Bubbalouie has decent grasp of spelling & grammar. tounge

Can I be Bubbalouie too? I feel left out.

I gotta say that Robert's writing style is nothing like Bubbalouie's. Bubbalouie has decent grasp of spelling & grammar. tounge

Yeah we noticed when he was Contrarian his grasp of spelling and grammar was "right on" also. LOLrofl2