What is the opinion about High School Soccer. Does it help the club player, or is it just for fun and doesn't really matter. Will exposer come from club play or high school? Should a SE or Gold player risk being injured playing HS.

It is an known fact Club, not HS will give a kid the kind of exposure they need to move on. But HS can be tremendously fun and rewarding. Granted some HS experiences are really frustrating, but it can be great playing in front of their friends and for their school. It is awesome having the local paper coverage, having the media and school hype during CIF, and the youth leagues coming to watch.

HS is not big if you are in it only for college recruitment, but I know quite a few college coaches who love to see players play for their HS. It shows they love the game, and has an entirely different feel than club. It often gives them a different position and role. They could get hurt walking to class, I do not think you can worry about the what ifs? But if safety becomes a concern you may need to address it.

Encourage them to play, get their letterman's jacket, become a big part of their HS experience, and have fun. You ask is it just for fun? I ask isn't it all just for fun? The number 1 thing players from the age of 7 to 19 say their number 1 priority is is having fun. If they are only in for the scholarship they will quit. It will become a high pressure job. It has to be fun. JMO

My kids are more excited about playing for thier High School than anything else i can remember. Neither play with local clubs and they enjoy the thought of representing the area in this way . To say there is no college exposure is untrue . Only high profile clubs help in this way . Let um play ! Go have fun !

It is an known fact Club, not HS will give a kid the kind of exposure they need to move on. But HS can be tremendously fun and rewarding. Granted some HS experiences are really frustrating, but it can be great playing in front of their friends and for their school. It is awesome having the local paper coverage, having the media and school hype during CIF, and the youth leagues coming to watch.

HS is not big if you are in it only for college recruitment, but I know quite a few college coaches who love to see players play for their HS.


I would agree that High School soccer has virtually nothing to do with college recruiting.

However, college soccer is really pretty much high school soccer and not at all like club. If you only play club you will likely be disappointed with the college product.

As far injuries go, by far away the greatest impact factor upon injuries is playing two games in one day or games on consecutive days eliminating the recuperative period. And that is how clubs do tournaments and no one brings that up as a reason to play only high school and not club.

And in terms of high social structures it scores no points to play club even top level club soccer, nobody really cares (except colllege recruiters). If you have accomplishments in high school sports it counts a lot in terms of social status.

There is a good argument not to play high school because the cummulative number of matches between club and high school is too much, but that is a reality that you have to deal with.

My daughter is a freshman, and is TREMENDOUSLY excited about playing high school soccer, and being on a team with her good friends from school. I remember my participation in high school sports as the fundamental building blocks for my social group in high school, and athletes - as a group - are a very positive group to associate with.

I've heard that girls can develop bad habits or get injured. Bad habits from 3-4 months of high school, vs. 8-9 months of club soccer seems to be of minimal concern to me. I've already seen the increased physicality of soccer at this age, and injuries can happen in club just as easily as at school.

Overall, I would feel that my daughter was missing a very important part of her personal development if she was discouraged from playing on her high school team.

My daughter is a freshman, and is TREMENDOUSLY excited about playing high school soccer, and being on a team with her good friends from school. I remember my participation in high school sports as the fundamental building blocks for my social group in high school, and athletes - as a group - are a very positive group to associate with.

I've heard that girls can develop bad habits or get injured. Bad habits from 3-4 months of high school, vs. 8-9 months of club soccer seems to be of minimal concern to me. I've already seen the increased physicality of soccer at this age, and injuries can happen in club just as easily as at school.

Overall, I would feel that my daughter was missing a very important part of her personal development if she was discouraged from playing on her high school team.

Oh! And 100% agreed that club, rather than high school, is the place to get recognition for potential scholarships.

High school soccer can be important to college coaches, although maybe only the local colleges. Just last season, in San Diego, I spoke to the UCSD coach after a game, the PLNU coach during a game, and sat behind the USD coach at a game. The SDSU coach had been fired and no replacement was hired during HS season, so I did not see the old or the new coach.

They are watching.

It seems like this topic comes up every year on this forum and there is always some great input and discussion.

My dd loves the high school soccer season. Not that she doesn’t love her club teammates and the talent & high level of play, but the players live in different areas and some even live in different counties. So it’s really a great experience to play with friends from your own high school, some who you’ve known for many years. The school spirit, seeing your name in the paper, the pasta parties, seeing & playing against your club teammates, earning a letter, the social aspects, etc. all make it something different than club and special in its own way.

Is HS soccer generally more physical than club (read “hacking”) resulting in injury risk? Absolutely
Is the level of competition as high as it is in the upper levels of club? Generally No (although in our case it is close)
Will playing HS soccer help your kid get recruited in the same way as club can? No
Is the coaching as good as club? Generally no (although in our case it is)
Are the refs in HS any better than club? NO, and in most cases worse.
Is HS Soccer fun? For my dd, YES

I think that JN hit the nail on the head. Let the kids have fun or they will quit. Club soccer is demanding and there is a great deal of pressure at the upper levels………..HS soccer is less this way and provides players a well-deserved break from the intensity of the club season.

My dd is an 8th grade U14 and more half of her club team is now in 9th grade. What happens to the youngers while the olders play high school?

My dd is an 8th grade U14 and more half of her club team is now in 9th grade. What happens to the youngers while the olders play high school?
They join up with the remaining half of their clubs's silver team and play scrimmages and/or tournaments against teams in similar straits.

They do skills training with their coach (who wouldn't love it - the student/teacher ratio just dropped by 50%!).

Maybe they practice with their lacrosse or softball (yuch!) team.

They do speed training at a local sports clinic.

Maybe they enjoy some time off and remember what it is like to be a kid, or perhaps catch up on those school projects that got put-off because their soccer practice schedule got in the way.

It isn't the end of the world. HS season only lasts 3 months. Then they need to be ready to pull it together again and compete at State/National cup.

They join up with the remaining half of their clubs's silver team and play scrimmages and/or tournaments against teams in similar straits.

They do skills training with their coach (who wouldn't love it - the student/teacher ratio just dropped by 50%!).

Maybe they practice with their lacrosse or softball (yuch!) team.

They do speed training at a local sports clinic.

Maybe they enjoy some time off and remember what it is like to be a kid, or perhaps catch up on those school projects that got put-off because their soccer practice schedule got in the way.

It isn't the end of the world. HS season only lasts 3 months. Then they need to be ready to pull it together again and compete at State/National cup.

I was hoping for a 3 month break.

My dd played HS soccer last year and loved it. She has been out of club soccer for about 4 years now to concentrate on that other sport (softball). She played some rec soccer for 3 years and didn't play the year before HS started. She really had fun with the team, even though it was very clicky and not very organized. The team won a good amount of games and she started every game. She loved playing for her school and as it turned out, the teams were good and aggressive and she had no problem taking out whoever got in her way. After the season was over, she was asked by many teams including some upper level teams that didn't have kids who played at our school. (BTW, there was only one team she wanted to play on, but due to her college exposure tournaments for the fall in softball, can not do it. Hey guys, you know who you are, e-mail me.)

All in all, it is something that you definitely need to do. It is fun to play with friends from school whether it is competative or not. I know that for the other sport, (sorry), the girls on that team only look at the HS season as a time to have fun, play a sport you love with out pressure and not worry about that scout behind the dugout, cause they won't be there. Relax and enjoy the ride, cause it will be over sooner than you know it.

My dd played HS soccer last year and loved it. She has been out of club soccer for about 4 years now to concentrate on that other sport (softball). She played some rec soccer for 3 years and didn't play the year before HS started. She really had fun with the team, even though it was very clicky and not very organized. The team won a good amount of games and she started every game. She loved playing for her school and as it turned out, the teams were good and aggressive and she had no problem taking out whoever got in her way. After the season was over, she was asked by many teams including some upper level teams that didn't have kids who played at our school. (BTW, there was only one team she wanted to play on, but due to her college exposure tournaments for the fall in softball, can not do it. Hey guys, you know who you are, e-mail me.)

All in all, it is something that you definitely need to do. It is fun to play with friends from school whether it is competative or not. I know that for the other sport, (sorry), the girls on that team only look at the HS season as a time to have fun, play a sport you love with out pressure and not worry about that scout behind the dugout, cause they won't be there. Relax and enjoy the ride, cause it will be over sooner than you know it.

In my opinion one of the best things that can happen to a kid is to play 2 sports in HS. 1 tends to be more serious for them, but it is great having 2 sets of friends/team-mates. Also the pressure is different in different sports and different roles. A great perspective to understand as kid. It can be tough, but from what I have seen a great experience. Also tends to keep them out of the HS girl drama a little bit because they have other wagons to tend. Good luck to your daughter in both her sports.

It is an known fact Club, not HS will give a kid the kind of exposure they need to move on. But HS can be tremendously fun and rewarding. Granted some HS experiences are really frustrating, but it can be great playing in front of their friends and for their school. It is awesome having the local paper coverage, having the media and school hype during CIF, and the youth leagues coming to watch.

HS is not big if you are in it only for college recruitment, but I know quite a few college coaches who love to see players play for their HS. It shows they love the game, and has an entirely different feel than club. It often gives them a different position and role. They could get hurt walking to class, I do not think you can worry about the what ifs? But if safety becomes a concern you may need to address it.

Encourage them to play, get their letterman's jacket, become a big part of their HS experience, and have fun. You ask is it just for fun? I ask isn't it all just for fun? The number 1 thing players from the age of 7 to 19 say their number 1 priority is is having fun. If they are only in for the scholarship they will quit. It will become a high pressure job. It has to be fun. JMO

Very well said also your DD should be the one that really should be making that chioce if she could do sports in high school as long as she get good grades! School comes first!

My dd played club from U-9 to U-18. She also played HS...and generally preferred it to her club - there was so much less bickering and infighting!

She was on her HS varsity team all 4 years. She was the starting GK as a Freshman, then sat out much of Soph & Jr year due to illness and injury. She almost didn't come back Sr. year...but decided that she still really wanted to play. It was by far her best year of soccer! And it made her love the game again - she's now playing club at college and loving it!

I agree with everyone here - GO for it! Play HS!!!

Congratulations to your dd. Our experience has been different. The bickering and infighting is in high school. Generally, if the club team is doing well most of the kids and parents get along. In our case our dd started in varsity as a freshman and sophmore. She played every minute of every game. We saw unnecessary injuries, less skill players finishing club players careers, less technical play and more of a hacking game.
My dd is not playing this year and we recommend against playing HS at all.

A few hit it right on the head when they said play it for fun. Most of the kids playing club have never had theirs friends even watch them play. Having an older son go on to play in college, the H.S experience was a fun one for him but not one that helped him as far as college recuriting. Of the 10 teams that were interested in him, not one talked to his H.S coach. Of course we have a mediocre team at best and a coach who means well but doesnt bring out the best in the boys. Still, its a great experience for most of the kids and will indeed give them some social status at school.

The big concern is injury. H.S can be quite rougher will many of the boys having less skill but more um...... enthusiasm. And with nationals coming after a H.S season, some of the boys can be quite beat up. It does alllow them to play other positions and that alone can be fun for them.

As far as scholarships, NCAA Div I and II boys have 9.9 per team. With roughly 28 players on a squad you do the math. If your lucky they will get some money but more important it may hlep them get into a school of their choice. Once in college they will find its like having a job. Travelling with the team and the practices can take a toll but the rewards can be wonderful.

Truly if the still enjoy playing the game then they are ahead of the game....

Congratulations to your dd. Our experience has been different. The bickering and infighting is in high school. Generally, if the club team is doing well most of the kids and parents get along. In our case our dd started in varsity as a freshman and sophmore. She played every minute of every game. We saw unnecessary injuries, less skill players finishing club players careers, less technical play and more of a hacking game.
My dd is not playing this year and we recommend against playing HS at all.
I recommend your dd not play either. It does not sound fun for her...or you.

This will be my dd 4th year playing HS soccer. The kids look forward to it all year long. I look forward to watching her play, something I can't do during club season because the games are so far away.

Congratulations to your dd. Our experience has been different. The bickering and infighting is in high school. Generally, if the club team is doing well most of the kids and parents get along. In our case our dd started in varsity as a freshman and sophmore. She played every minute of every game. We saw unnecessary injuries, less skill players finishing club players careers, less technical play and more of a hacking game.
My dd is not playing this year and we recommend against playing HS at all.

Sounds like the club game we had last weekend. And it appears the referee was complicit in the behavior. At one point, when my son had loudly complained about repeated fouls (pushes from behind, grabbing shirts, tripping, hidden punches and elbows to the ribs), the referee had a quiet, calm little talk with him about how he shouldn't be upset just because the defenders outweighed him

Different people have different experiences in HS. Best of luck to you and your daughter.

In my opinion one of the best things that can happen to a kid is to play 2 sports in HS. 1 tends to be more serious for them, but it is great having 2 sets of friends/team-mates. Also the pressure is different in different sports and different roles. A great perspective to understand as kid. It can be tough, but from what I have seen a great experience. Also tends to keep them out of the HS girl drama a little bit because they have other wagons to tend. Good luck to your daughter in both her sports.
Jim, my dd plays centerfield and is now a lefty slapper. I will admit, soccer is what got her in shape and also helped her with her speed. I'm really sad that she is done with soccer, but happy she is focused on something. Our softball schedule is more rigorious than any soccer schedule we have had. She will be busy every Sat and Sun playing at least 3 games each day until second week of November. Best part about the schedule, she told me last night that if a guy can't handle her schedule, then he needs to find someone that will work around his. She is all about trying to get into college and knows just like soccer, it is very competative and takes a lot of work.

Good news, my younger dd starts HS next year and she wants to play soccer again too. We'll see how that goes.

one of the problems playing at our H.S. is that our coach loves to run the kids. They will run hard three times a week (pre season) then have two or three club practices in addition to two games a weekend. It can wear them down over time. He has had to learn to back off at H.S. during his club season

one of the problems playing at our H.S. is that our coach loves to run the kids. They will run hard three times a week (pre season) then have two or three club practices in addition to two games a weekend. It can wear them down over time. He has had to learn to back off at H.S. during his club season


Seen a lot of this too. It's definitely a lack of creative/smart coaching. I think CIF rules have some limitations on what they can do during the preseason however long distance running at practice 3-5 times, like it's a track team, is a waste of their time and hard on the body especially in the middle of their club season.

High school teams at this time of the year are supposed to be doing only "fitness". That's why they spend so much time doing it. My dd hates it-she practices with club two nights, has private training 2 more nights, games on both Sat and Sun and then has to go to "soccer class" at school and run 2 miles. She is in great shape, but I worry about her getting run down and overworked. The Sat/Sun games at this age really sucks-no rest.

I guess the coaches know this, but they have to "something" in school since it is a class. Or, maybe they don't know and don't care?

High school teams at this time of the year are supposed to be doing only "fitness". That's why they spend so much time doing it. My dd hates it-she practices with club two nights, has private training 2 more nights, games on both Sat and Sun and then has to go to "soccer class" at school and run 2 miles. She is in great shape, but I worry about her getting run down and overworked. The Sat/Sun games at this age really sucks-no rest.

I guess the coaches know this, but they have to "something" in school since it is a class. Or, maybe they don't know and don't care?

Thats how pros do it every day, just let her know that so if she make it just be ready!koffee

High school teams at this time of the year are supposed to be doing only "fitness". That's why they spend so much time doing it. My dd hates it-she practices with club two nights, has private training 2 more nights, games on both Sat and Sun and then has to go to "soccer class" at school and run 2 miles. She is in great shape, but I worry about her getting run down and overworked. The Sat/Sun games at this age really sucks-no rest.

I guess the coaches know this, but they have to "something" in school since it is a class. Or, maybe they don't know and don't care?

Actually the rules are that HS soccer or any sport out of season can only run after school at their team workouts. However as long as they are in a class during the regular school day they can play all the soccer and do all the drills they want. In no way are they limited to strictly conditioning as long as it is a class.

What probably happens is some coaches have non club kids, or lower level club kids that do not condition that much. They want to get them in shape for the season, and they have different ability levels in their athletic PE class. So they condition so the lower level kids will be ready. You are only as good as your weakest link. If they are out of shape you got problems. Now how is it fair to tell the top club kids they don't have to do the same workouts because they work hard enough. Boy will that create prima dona's quicker then snot.

Actually the rules are that HS soccer or any sport out of season can only run after school at their team workouts. However as long as they are in a class during the regular school day they can play all the soccer and do all the drills they want. In no way are they limited to strictly conditioning as long as it is a class.

What probably happens is some coaches have non club kids, or lower level club kids that do not condition that much. They want to get them in shape for the season, and they have different ability levels in their athletic PE class. So they condition so the lower level kids will be ready. You are only as good as your weakest link. If they are out of shape you got problems. Now how is it fair to tell the top club kids they don't have to do the same workouts because they work hard enough. Boy will that create prima dona's quicker then snot.

THATS FUNNY YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE MY SON IS GETTING THREATENED NOW BECAUSE HE IS NOT PRACTICING WITH HIS SCHOOL TEAM. THE COACH TOLD MY SON AT A SOCCER MEETING FOR THE SCHOOL THAT IF HE DOES NOT SHOW UP FOR PRACTICE ( AFTER SCHOOL) HE IS WILL NOT PLAY VARSITY THIS YEAR . HE IS RUNNING CROSS COUNTRY EVERY DAY AFTER SCHOOL AND ALSO HAS HIS CLUB PRACTICE 3 TIMES A WEEK. THE COACH OF THE HIGH SCHOOL ( SAN DIEGO) IS ALSO A COACH FOR THE PUMITAS AND TRIES TO RECRUITE PLAYERS AND ALSO RUNS A LEAGUE OFF OF SCHOOL GROUNDS ON THE WEEKENDS. IS THIS RIGHT ??? I HAVE CONTACTED THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR ABOUT THIS BUT SO FAR NO RESPONSE. OFFICIAL TRYOUTS ARE NOT UNTIL NOVEMBER BUT ALLREADY ARE GETTING NEGATIVE VIBES...SON PLAYS CLUB AND IS WORKING TOWARD A SCHOLARSHIP ....HOPEFULLY BUT IN THIS SITUATION IT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR MY CHILD. WHAT CAN I DO AS A PARENT ??? I HAVE TRIED TO GET MY SON OUT OF THIS SCHOOL FOR 3 YEARS BUT SO FAR NOTHING.... IS THIS GOING TO HURT HIM IN THE LONG RUN????

THATS FUNNY YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE MY SON IS GETTING THREATENED NOW BECAUSE HE IS NOT PRACTICING WITH HIS SCHOOL TEAM. THE COACH TOLD MY SON AT A SOCCER MEETING FOR THE SCHOOL THAT IF HE DOES NOT SHOW UP FOR PRACTICE ( AFTER SCHOOL) HE IS WILL NOT PLAY VARSITY THIS YEAR . HE IS RUNNING CROSS COUNTRY EVERY DAY AFTER SCHOOL AND ALSO HAS HIS CLUB PRACTICE 3 TIMES A WEEK. THE COACH OF THE HIGH SCHOOL ( SAN DIEGO) IS ALSO A COACH FOR THE PUMITAS AND TRIES TO RECRUITE PLAYERS AND ALSO RUNS A LEAGUE OFF OF SCHOOL GROUNDS ON THE WEEKENDS. IS THIS RIGHT ??? I HAVE CONTACTED THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR ABOUT THIS BUT SO FAR NO RESPONSE. OFFICIAL TRYOUTS ARE NOT UNTIL NOVEMBER BUT ALLREADY ARE GETTING NEGATIVE VIBES...SON PLAYS CLUB AND IS WORKING TOWARD A SCHOLARSHIP ....HOPEFULLY BUT IN THIS SITUATION IT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR MY CHILD. WHAT CAN I DO AS A PARENT ??? I HAVE TRIED TO GET MY SON OUT OF THIS SCHOOL FOR 3 YEARS BUT SO FAR NOTHING.... IS THIS GOING TO HURT HIM IN THE LONG RUN????
sounds like you need to change schools

THATS FUNNY YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE MY SON IS GETTING THREATENED NOW BECAUSE HE IS NOT PRACTICING WITH HIS SCHOOL TEAM. THE COACH TOLD MY SON AT A SOCCER MEETING FOR THE SCHOOL THAT IF HE DOES NOT SHOW UP FOR PRACTICE ( AFTER SCHOOL) HE IS WILL NOT PLAY VARSITY THIS YEAR . HE IS RUNNING CROSS COUNTRY EVERY DAY AFTER SCHOOL AND ALSO HAS HIS CLUB PRACTICE 3 TIMES A WEEK. THE COACH OF THE HIGH SCHOOL ( SAN DIEGO) IS ALSO A COACH FOR THE PUMITAS AND TRIES TO RECRUITE PLAYERS AND ALSO RUNS A LEAGUE OFF OF SCHOOL GROUNDS ON THE WEEKENDS. IS THIS RIGHT ??? I HAVE CONTACTED THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR ABOUT THIS BUT SO FAR NO RESPONSE. OFFICIAL TRYOUTS ARE NOT UNTIL NOVEMBER BUT ALLREADY ARE GETTING NEGATIVE VIBES...SON PLAYS CLUB AND IS WORKING TOWARD A SCHOLARSHIP ....HOPEFULLY BUT IN THIS SITUATION IT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR MY CHILD. WHAT CAN I DO AS A PARENT ??? I HAVE TRIED TO GET MY SON OUT OF THIS SCHOOL FOR 3 YEARS BUT SO FAR NOTHING.... IS THIS GOING TO HURT HIM IN THE LONG RUN????
What you should do is put in a call to CIF San Diego Section and discuss this action with them. Your HS coach is clearly infringing on the rules here. HS teams are not supposed to be having any practices at this time and a coach can not demand that a player attend during this time. I'm sure that CIF can help you here.

REALLY....THEY ARE PRACTICING EVERY DAY AFTER SCHOOL. THANKS!! I WILL DEFINITLY GO TO CIF. I KNEW IT WAS NOT RIGHT.

REALLY....THEY ARE PRACTICING EVERY DAY AFTER SCHOOL. THANKS!! I WILL DEFINITLY GO TO CIF. I KNEW IT WAS NOT RIGHT.
I don't have a "dog in this fight" as they say, but I believe that the players can condition and perform skills development drills during this time. I THINK, that they can also scrimmage amongst themselves (not sure), as long as they don't organize a formal scrimmage with an opposing team. At any rate, I would attempt to confirm the ruling before you get CIF involved. Doesn't sound like positive outcome in that scenario.

Ask you sons/daughters Club coach to contact their high school coach and see if they can't come to some agreement of understanding.

Outside of season you may NOT practice after school hours with your hs soccer coach present, except for an official PE class during the school day. Check the CIF Bluebook on the cifss website for exact wording. I would say that there are several hs coaches who violate the rule every year.

HS is not worth the time and injury if you are a girl, in my opinion.

Outside of season you may NOT practice after school hours with your hs soccer coach present, except for an official PE class during the school day. Check the CIF Bluebook on the cifss website for exact wording. I would say that there are several hs coaches who violate the rule every year.

HS is not worth the time and injury if you are a girl, in my opinion.

My son's HS offers "soccer PE" in the last period of the day. He took it last year as a junior, and was hoping to be a T.A. for it this year, but it was oversubscribed.

Outside of season you may NOT practice after school hours with your hs soccer coach present, except for an official PE class during the school day. Check the CIF Bluebook on the cifss website for exact wording. I would say that there are several hs coaches who violate the rule every year.

HS is not worth the time and injury if you are a girl, in my opinion.

I have 2 dds, one who plays hs soccer and one who wants to play. In my opinion, though there is a risk of injury, he girls get to not only play and bond with their friends (and sometimes even club teamates), but they also experience having another coach, being exposed to other coaching types and learning to deal with the new environment and changes. Also, hs soccer can build confidence as it is a bit more laid back then club. Confidence can totally change a player's game. So, in my opinion, if it isn't worth it for girls, then it isn't for boys either. Tenpins, both boys and girls experience similar things in hs soccer and they are both at risk of injury (the next time there is an invinsible boy, tell me). So, I think khs soccer is great for both boys and girls.
jmp

I have 2 dds, one who plays hs soccer and one who wants to play. In my opinion, though there is a risk of injury, he girls get to not only play and bond with their friends (and sometimes even club teamates), but they also experience having another coach, being exposed to other coaching types and learning to deal with the new environment and changes. Also, hs soccer can build confidence as it is a bit more laid back then club. Confidence can totally change a player's game. So, in my opinion, if it isn't worth it for girls, then it isn't for boys either. Tenpins, both boys and girls experience similar things in hs soccer and they are both at risk of injury (the next time there is an invinsible boy, tell me). So, I think khs soccer is great for both boys and girls.
jmp
I agree with you 4ever, in fact, in my daughters case her hs coach is very good (he also coaches club) and she feels that she gets even more out of that experience than with her club coach / team. Unfortunately he doesn't coach her age in club. But all the other aspects of HS soccer that you mentioned are very positive. Regarding injuries...they can happen in club or anywhere else just as much as playing HS soccer.

Outside of season you may NOT practice after school hours with your hs soccer coach present, except for an official PE class during the school day. Check the CIF Bluebook on the cifss website for exact wording. I would say that there are several hs coaches who violate the rule every year.

HS is not worth the time and injury if you are a girl, in my opinion.

First, that is not entirely correct. The rule states, and its limitations vary between sports and time of year, that soccer may practice regularly during 6th period during the offseason, but after that the balls cannot be used. However, if a coach chose, he could do fitness, or weight lifting, or any other activity without soccer balls that he chose for as long as he chose. Of course, there are weeks here and there that are considered dead periods where they are not allowed any sort of organized practice with or without balls.

As far as the debate between if HS soccer is worth it, for boys or girls, this really is a silly argument. I know that club parents have a lot of time and money invested in club soccer, but that in no way gaurantees it to be a better product or vehicle for their children. As a lot of people have stated in here a lot of the HS coaches are the elite club coaches so the coaching argument doesn't hold water (I agree there are bad HS coaches, but there are also bad club coaches). So what do you think is better: practice twice a week with your coach, or five days a week. Now, I am not saying that makes HS better, because at the end of the day club season lasts 3 times as long as the HS season, however, to say you would rather do 1 on 1 training during this time, or whatever else, seems you are missing out on a large part of what can help you excel as a player.

At the end of the day, club parents are always going to bag on HS soccer because it is the line of garbage they have been spoon fed their childs entire playing career from their club coaches, or DOC. It is a lot like how football players and coaches call soccer a "communist sport". They fear what they do not know and it is easier to distance themselves with insults than to actually give it a fair shot. I hope that most of the people here will at least let their children find out for themselves if HS is right for them, and not just bash it to the point where their kids are afraid to try.

I didn't mean to include all club parents or coaches in my statement, even though that is basically what I did. I only meant the ones who continually bag on HS soccer. I am glad you are happy with you kids HS experience, and only hope everyone else can have the same.

As far as the debate between if HS soccer is worth it, for boys or girls, this really is a silly argument. I know that club parents have a lot of time and money invested in club soccer, but that in no way gaurantees it to be a better product or vehicle for their children. As a lot of people have stated in here a lot of the HS coaches are the elite club coaches so the coaching argument doesn't hold water (I agree there are bad HS coaches, but there are also bad club coaches).

There are more bad HS coaches than bad club coaches. And the high level club coaches that also coach HS sometimes have very different approaches to HS vs. club. They do all they can in a short time to put together a team that will win. There may be not enough emphasis on development on the club level, but this is a thousand times worse at the HS level. So you end up trying to mesh a mishmash of styles and levels of talent leading to a de-emphasis on development and very unattractive play.

So what do you think is better: practice twice a week with your coach, or five days a week.

Don't assume the players will only train twice a week. But even so, that twice a week will likely be better for a player's development than the 5X/week HS training.

There are good reasons to play HS ball, but it's foolish to think that it probably doesn't hurt your development as a player.

There are more bad HS coaches than bad club coaches. And the high level club coaches that also coach HS sometimes have very different approaches to HS vs. club. They do all they can in a short time to put together a team that will win. There may be not enough emphasis on development on the club level, but this is a thousand times worse at the HS level. So you end up trying to mesh a mishmash of styles and levels of talent leading to a de-emphasis on development and very unattractive play.



Don't assume the players will only train twice a week. But even so, that twice a week will likely be better for a player's development than the 5X/week HS training.

There are good reasons to play HS ball, but it's foolish to think that it probably doesn't hurt your development as a player.


Reverend, I'll try to take what you said one thing at a time, because as a whole, it is the same garbage I always hear. First, you speak as though you have done some kind of study into the licensing level and quality of coaches for clubs and HS. If so, I would love to see it. If not, then your figures are only your opinion, so I cannot speak to that. I do agree that the main focus (of varsity) HS programs are all winning, however that doesn't necessarily mean that rules out the development of the players. After all, it takes the same things to win at the HS level than it does at the club. And to say that the emphasis on winning at the HS level is a thousand time worse than the club level, well then you have not seen enough club teams.

As far as the unattractive soccer aspect of HS, you have obviously never seen some of the better HS teams play. I can mainly only speak to the boys side, as that is where most of my experience comes, however I have also seen some great girls games as well. But have you seen Loyola, Santa Margarita, Servite, Mater Dei, Damien, Clovis West, Saddleback, Santa Ana, Esperanza, Temecula Valley, or many other schools play? When players play with passion (which is more common in HS) then some of the products can be fantastic. I know your response will be that for every good program there are 5 bad ones, however, how many bronze teams are there for every premier team? I respect what some of the good clubs attempt to do with their players, but I have never seen a game as exciting as when there are 600 fans screaming and the players leave it all out there. I don't know that I have ever seen more than 100 at a club game.

As far as meshing the styles of play, it is good for players to learn different styles every once in awhile. Playing with just one coach for too long can stagnate their play or their tactical awareness.

I do think it is funny, however how you will still desperately cling to saying that the twice a week with you club coach is still better than the weekly training with HS. I know about the troubles with overtraining more than anyone, however, having the ability to be out with a ball nearly everyday can do wonders for someone's ability, regardless of what is being taught.

Lastly, to say that HS hurts your development is ignorant. I know there are some programs out there that basically roll the ball out everyday, and the players do not learn a whole lot, and their play might even suffer. But don't blame the institution for a couple of poor programs. I have personally seen as a club coach some of my players come back sharper than ever from a HS season.

I know at the end of the day everyone just wants whats best for the kids and these discussions are fun and interesting. However, an incredible small percentage of the club or HS players will ever get to play in college, so to try and talk prospective players out of such an enjoyable experience (I know, not ever time) is really doing a disservice to the players and the sport as a whole.

There are more bad HS coaches than bad club coaches. And the high level club coaches that also coach HS sometimes have very different approaches to HS vs. club. They do all they can in a short time to put together a team that will win. There may be not enough emphasis on development on the club level, but this is a thousand times worse at the HS level. So you end up trying to mesh a mishmash of styles and levels of talent leading to a de-emphasis on development and very unattractive play.



Don't assume the players will only train twice a week. But even so, that twice a week will likely be better for a player's development than the 5X/week HS training.

There are good reasons to play HS ball, but it's foolish to think that it probably doesn't hurt your development as a player.

Rev, I will try and take your points one by one, as it is the same line I have heard over and over again. First, it sounds as though you have done some kind of study into the licensing level and quality of coaching in the club and the HS levels. If this is true, I would love to see it. If not, then don't try to quantify something that you know nothing about. I agree that the emphasis with (varsity) HS programs is to win, but to say that it isn't the same with the majority of the club programs out there as well is ignorant.

As far as the unattractive syle of play, I can't disagree more as well. I can only speak to the boys side, as that is where most of my experience lies, although I know that there are some great girls teams out there as well. Have you ever seen Santa Margarita, Servite, Loyola, Damien, Saddleback, Santa Ana, Temecula Valley, Clovis West, St. Francis, Esperanza, etc.... . If you have than I am sure you know that they play some fantastic soccer. I know that you will say that for every one of these schools there are 5 bad programs, but how many bronze teams are there to every premier? I can't think of a club game as exciting as a playoff game with 600 fans screaming and the players giving 100% on the field. I don't think you can match that at the club level.

As to the changing styles, it is actually good for these players to learn different tactics and a different style of play from a different coach. If anything can stagnate a players development it is playing for the same coach learning the same things over a long period of time.

You also must know some amazing coaches at the club level that are developmentally able to get more out of their players in 2 hour and a half sessions than a HS coach could get all week. Having 5 days a week with the ball at your feet should help almost anyone develop as long as they are putting something into it.

Lastly, to say that HS soccer hurts a players development is probably the most common, and most wrong thing I hear. As a club coach, I have personally seen some of my players come back sharper than ever after competing at that level for a period of time. You get out of everything exactly what you put in.

I think these discussions are fun and great. However, an incredibly small percentage of the players in club and HS will ever get to move on and play in college, so to not allow the rest of the players to have such a fun experience (I know, not always) really does a disservice to the sport as a whole.

Reverend, I'll try to take what you said one thing at a time, because as a whole, it is the same garbage I always hear. First, you speak as though you have done some kind of study into the licensing level and quality of coaches for clubs and HS. If so, I would love to see it. If not, then your figures are only your opinion, so I cannot speak to that. I do agree that the main focus (of varsity) HS programs are all winning, however that doesn't necessarily mean that rules out the development of the players. After all, it takes the same things to win at the HS level than it does at the club.

Not necessarily true. You can put together a successful team without doing crap to develop skills in high school. This is because almost every team faces the much the same problems:
Too little time to develop
A wide variety of skill levels, from AYSO to Premier
Gaps in ages
etc.

Clubs have the time to develop so the incentive is stronger for the club.

And to say that the emphasis on winning at the HS level is a thousand time worse than the club level, well then you have not seen enough club teams.

Clubs have the time to develop so the incentive is stronger for the club. High schools have a few weeks to put together a teams to compete. They don't have enough time with the kids. Plus, you have to tailor your training for the wide variety of skill levels.

As far as the unattractive soccer aspect of HS, you have obviously never seen some of the better HS teams play. I can mainly only speak to the boys side, as that is where most of my experience comes, however I have also seen some great girls games as well. But have you seen Loyola, Santa Margarita, Servite, Mater Dei, Damien, Clovis West, Saddleback, Santa Ana, Esperanza, Temecula Valley, or many other schools play?

Yes. Some schools to play nice soccer. Most (including some you listed) don't.

When players play with passion (which is more common in HS) then some of the products can be fantastic. I know your response will be that for every good program there are 5 bad ones, however, how many bronze teams are there for every premier team? I respect what some of the good clubs attempt to do with their players, but I have never seen a game as exciting as when there are 600 fans screaming and the players leave it all out there. I don't know that I have ever seen more than 100 at a club game.

Sure. But this has nothing to do with development. Of course there are reasons to play HS. Becoming a better player isn't one of them.

As far as meshing the styles of play, it is good for players to learn different styles every once in awhile. Playing with just one coach for too long can stagnate their play or their tactical awareness.

I don't think bootball really is a good thing to be learning. Again, HS coaches don't have the time or players with consistent skills to be able to really teach them a different style. What you usually end up with is more anti-style.

I do think it is funny, however how you will still desperately cling to saying that the twice a week with you club coach is still better than the weekly training with HS. I know about the troubles with overtraining more than anyone, however, having the ability to be out with a ball nearly everyday can do wonders for someone's ability, regardless of what is being taught.

They can so that without playing HS. And if a player skips HS for off-season training, they are likely training more than twice a week. And let's put an end to the five times a week l for HS. Once the games start, they'll be training 2 or 3 times a week. While playing 2 games a week. Kind of like club does during the CSL season. They're really not getting that much more training.

Lastly, to say that HS hurts your development is ignorant. I know there are some programs out there that basically roll the ball out everyday, and the players do not learn a whole lot, and their play might even suffer. But don't blame the institution for a couple of poor programs. I have personally seen as a club coach some of my players come back sharper than ever from a HS season.

Some. Heh. Come back when you can say "most".

I know at the end of the day everyone just wants whats best for the kids and these discussions are fun and interesting. However, an incredible small percentage of the club or HS players will ever get to play in college, so to try and talk prospective players out of such an enjoyable experience (I know, not ever time) is really doing a disservice to the players and the sport as a whole.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. For most players, high school soccer is a worthwhile experience. And it is really only the top 5 or 10% that need to worry about the developmental setback that most HS programs will be for them. But you don't need to try to sell the erroneous idea that HS will make them better soccer players to get them to play. The vast majority (outside the academy teams) will be playing HS.

While interesting, this dialogue will obviously not go anywhere. It is obvious to me that you either have only watched Frosh Soph soccer at a worthless program, or you do not know what you are watching. To lump in even most high school programs with kick and run soccer is insulting and incorrect. I know that I sound like a huge apologist for HS soccer and do tend to oversimplify it's problems, however my real complaint is with the illusion that club promotes beautiful development oriented soccer, as it is promoted here. I have been involved in all levels of soccer for quite some time and have seen just as much good and bad at both HS and club, so it is disheartening to hear the mindless dribble that comes out here. Just because you have had a bad experience, don't write it all off as route 1 soccer with no room for development.

I appreciate your opinion, and to be honest I might also be biased because I have mainly been apart of decent programs. I could come on here as well and just state a bunch of nonsense about club to back my point, but it would not be valid. I can only speak to my experiences and what I have seen. If you childs practice every day revolves around lumping the ball up the field and running on to it, by all means pull them out of HS soccer. If you just don't agree with what the coach is doing, get a coaching license and make the world a better place.

As far as meshing the vast arrays of talent and it being an impossibility to meld the different styles of play, it's called coaching and it is done at every level. Obviously the players are better distributed at the club level, but there is desparity there as well. At the end of the day, the "style" that the coach teaches will be based on highlighting the strengths and minimizing the weaknesses. Just because the only answer you can come up with is kick and run, or the style you have seen, doesn't make it the only way. Even your premeir teams have to hide players.

I 100% believe that HS soccer can and does develop players on some teams, and until you can tell me that every club team is developing their players skills first and attempting to win second, don't say that they shouldn't think they can improve through HS. You obviously don't know the majority of HS programs and are passing your problems on to everyone else.

While interesting, this dialogue will obviously not go anywhere. It is obvious to me that you either have only watched Frosh Soph soccer at a worthless program, or you do not know what you are watching.

I guess when you run out of arguments...

I've reached my conclusions after watching 3 years of varsity soccer. Shoot, the quality of the last summer league play actually dropped significantly.

To lump in even most high school programs with kick and run soccer is insulting and incorrect. I know that I sound like a huge apologist for HS soccer

Indeed.

As far as meshing the vast arrays of talent and it being an impossibility to meld the different styles of play, it's called coaching and it is done at every level.

Again, you're totally ignoring the main problem. No matter how good the coaching is, they just don't have the time with the kids to develop or find a way to blend the styles and levels of play.

Obviously the players are better distributed at the club level,

Worlds better. Galaxies better.

but there is desparity there as well.

Oh brother. It's pretty disingenuous to imply that the disparity is even remotely comparable. Some HS teams have AYSO kids playing alongside Premier and ODP kids.

I 100% believe that HS soccer can and does develop players on some teams,

"Some"

and until you can tell me that every club team is developing their players skills first and attempting to win second, don't say that they shouldn't think they can improve through HS.

How does this even logically follow? Unless every club does a good job of player development, HS improves players? I love it. "Some" high schools do improve players, so that makes it a better option than clubs since not every single club does a good job of player development. Bit of a double standard there.

i agree with the good reverend on this one.

the better or elite player would be better served working on his touch and technique with a private coach.

the better of elite player would be better served working on his quickness, agility and strength in a strucutured program such as Velocity or something similiar

the better or elite player is at risk of getting seriously injured as the refs do not protect the better players from the ayso and football hacks.

RP,

You are foolishly pursuing a purely theoretical argument in the face of a very practical question was raised by this thread: should your son/dd play hs soccer?

Again, aside from the new academies (which affect only a minute portion of the potential hs soccer population), your arguments in favor of club vs. hs soccer are entirely meaningless when analyzing the real question posed here. Club team tournaments and league play STOP right when hs soccer STARTS. Therefore, a player's real choice is training only for nearly 5 months vs. training AND matches.

IOW, if your son is not involved in an academy system (none exist for dds yet, correct?), then to keep them involved in game situations, they will need to play hs soccer. Touches on the ball in a game setting are critical to continued development, whether you're a striker, a mid, a defender, or the keeper. If you don't play hs soccer, then you will be training for nearly 5 months out of the year without playing in actual soccer matches.

All in all then, unless the hs coach is absolutely horrible (which can happen, but it's rare), your son or dd is better off keeping his/her touch on the ball by playing in matches, even if every game doesn't live up to the level they would be playing at with their club team. don't be silly!

game setting?

does scrimmaging at the end of a practice not count?
does playing short sided drills during practice not count?

how many times do you estimate your child touches a ball during 2 x 1.5 hrs a week practices, think it is more or less than 1 hour one on one with a personal trainer?

Even if your child does not play for an academy team it probably is better to work with a personal trainer and work on improving weaknesses and strenghts than play HS.

You go right ahead and keep your kid out of playing in a game setting for 5 months. You clearly are not an athlete and competitor. Given the choice of training only for 5 months or training plus games, any real athlete will choose to play in games as well.

5 months is a bit of an extreme picture to paint. Thanksgiving to mid-February if a team does not make playoffs, and if your team goes all the way, the first week of March. Falls more in line with 2.5 months to just over 3 (but it could take place in 5 different months).

Finally someone else is using some common sense here. My point has basically been that the two are not mutually exclusive and players can and do play both. If HS is so horrible and detrimental to players, then why does almost every single player who goes on to play college soccer play HS soccer (obviously this new academy system is something different)? You would think that these players would be passed on because they are taking part of such a disgraceful league and are clearly moving backwards in development.

Your arguments are based on biases and ignorance. You state things as if they are fact, and yet your only experience is based on the 3 years your kid has been involved with obviously a horrible HS program. You can play semantics all you want and keep saying "Oh you said 'some' " all you want. At least I don't use incorrect blanket statements to describe entire institutions. Your hatred will only get you so far.

Finally someone else is using some common sense here. My point has basically been that the two are not mutually exclusive and players can and do play both. If HS is so horrible and detrimental to players, then why does almost every single player who goes on to play college soccer play HS soccer (obviously this new academy system is something different)? You would think that these players would be passed on because they are taking part of such a disgraceful league and are clearly moving backwards in development.

Your arguments are based on biases and ignorance. You state things as if they are fact, and yet your only experience is based on the 3 years your kid has been involved with obviously a horrible HS program. You can play semantics all you want and keep saying "Oh you said 'some' " all you want. At least I don't use incorrect blanket statements to describe entire institutions. Your hatred will only get you so far.

If I may step in and mediate (interpret) a little. I think you are both (RP and Mstaub) right and arguing different points. HS soccer is probably detrimental to the top 5-10% of players who now have a better option of playing in the academies. For everyone else it's not that big a deal. Sure the soccer in general isn't as pretty, and for 'some' it will be beneficial and 'some' it will be detrimental, but it's only for a season, and for those involved it offers much more than just the soccer.

RP, from your posts on this and other threads, I take it you are involved at AN. I understand exactly where you are coming from as the talent at AN hasn't been high, but the system in play has been effective (see league champions with arguably the 3rd or 4th most talent in the league).

Mstaub, if you are fortunate enough to coach at a HS with very talented players from top to bottom and are able to put a quality product on the field through your coaching abilities and those of your players, more power to you, just know that not everyone is in the same boat and I would venture to say the vast majority aren't.

If I may step in and mediate (interpret) a little. I think you are both (RP and Mstaub) right and arguing different points. HS soccer is probably detrimental to the top 5-10% of players who now have a better option of playing in the academies. For everyone else it's not that big a deal.

This is what I've been saying. How have I not been clear that HS is a good experience for most kids? Most of those kids will probably regress a tad developmentally, but for them it's not all that important.

Ah, here's my quote from this very thread:
"For most players, high school soccer is a worthwhile experience. And it is really only the top 5 or 10% that need to worry about the developmental setback that most HS programs will be for them."

(I wonder how "most" has become a "blanket statement".)

That's pretty clear.

Your hatred will only get you so far.

Hatred? Of what? HS ball? I love HS soccer. It's fun. It's just not of very high quality and won't do much, if anything, to make someone a better player.

I don't know why you feel the need to give HS soccer the hard sell, almost everyone will play. And for most what negatives there are in HS soccer aren't a big deal and probably more than balanced out by the positives.

RP,

You are foolishly pursuing a purely theoretical argument in the face of a very practical question was raised by this thread: should your son/dd play hs soccer?

Again, aside from the new academies (which affect only a minute portion of the potential hs soccer population), your arguments in favor of club vs. hs soccer are entirely meaningless when analyzing the real question posed here. Club team tournaments and league play STOP right when hs soccer STARTS. Therefore, a player's real choice is training only for nearly 5 months vs. training AND matches.

5 months? How do you figure? I count 3.

IOW, if your son is not involved in an academy system (none exist for dds yet, correct?), then to keep them involved in game situations, they will need to play hs soccer. Touches on the ball in a game setting are critical to continued development,

Tell that to the USSF & the top clubs around the world. Our kids get more than enough game experience. The many many more touches players get in training is better for their development.

But then, I've been pretty clear that only the academy or academy quality players should skip high school. So I don't know what your problem is.

I agree exactly with what you are saying, and maybe the Rev and I just needed an intervention. I think we, at the end of the day, think HS is worthwhile, I think we only disagree on whether or not a player can develop through that system, and if it is possible for them to play attractive soccer. I know that both are possible and happen quite regularly. The rest has just been semantics.

In fact, you initially stated that hs soccer is so detrimental to player development that soccer players would be better off skipping hs soccer (and your comments were not limited to academy players).

Right. When talking about the actual development of a player, this is mostly true. There aren't a lot of players who improve their game by playing HS.

5 months? How do you figure? I count 3.

Most club teams stop training together in early November and don't start up again until March

You may need to count again. That's still only 4 months. And I don't think HS is even allowed to start until after Thanksgiving. Most clubs play in tournaments over Thannksgiving weekend. So HS is really only Dec-Feb.

[B]RP, I find your comments laughable based on what I've seen actually happen with local high school soccer teams. Time and time again, top soccer players who end up getting full-ride scholarships to play soccer in college also played hs soccer. Local papers covering hs sports are full of soccer recaps that name players who play on top clubs and who are instrumental in leading their teams to CIF playoffs and championship games. As just one example of many, one of the SD hs teams had a national ODP center mid on the team who helped the team make it much further in the CIF playoffs than they would have if he had stuck his nose in the air and skipped hs soccer.

So? No one has argued that good players don't play HS. Just that HS tends to be detrimental to their development. I really don't see how coverage from the local rag improves a player's skills.

Again, these top soccer players are playing for their hs teams in games between November and March.

They don't need those games. They get too many as it is. The kids need fewer games. And what they really don't need is poorly played games.

RP, you made numerous pejorative comments about hs soccer yet now you try to state that you only advised "academy players" to skip hs soccer. That's bull&^% and you know it.

Read this (http://www.socalsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201004&postcount=42).

People are sooo defensive about HS soccer. I never said it was a horrible experience. All I've ever said is that it's unlikely to make you a better soccer player. You don't play HS for developmental reasons. This doesn't meant that there aren't other good reasons to play.

Have you considered a new login name?

As far as the unattractive soccer aspect of HS, you have obviously never seen some of the better HS teams play. I can mainly only speak to the boys side, as that is where most of my experience comes, however I have also seen some great girls games as well. But have you seen Loyola, Santa Margarita, Servite, Mater Dei, Damien, Clovis West, Saddleback, Santa Ana, Esperanza, Temecula Valley, or many other schools play?


If I may stick my nose it a bit more, the majority of these schools that you have listed have something very much in common: they are big, private schools. They play under a different set of rules than the public schools, and this gives them a distinct advantage.

Actually, Saddleback and Santa Ana are public schools and if public schools, for whatever reason, are the examples you are looking for you could include Esperanza, Woodbridge, Temecula Valley, Santa Barbara, Poway, and many other schools. However, I don't really see the point.

Didn't mean to post yet. What I meant was the majority that I listed are actually public schools, but there are more that could be included as well. As far as the different set of rules I don't see your point. If you mean the enrollment issue, then yes they do have more flexibility, however the discussion is whether or not HS soccer can help soccer players. Are these not HS's?

If I may stick my nose it a bit more, the majority of these schools that you have listed have something very much in common: they are big, private schools. They play under a different set of rules than the public schools, and this gives them a distinct advantage.

Private schools do not play under a different set of rules than the public schools, they have to abide by the same CIF rules. The only different rule would be who they can admit. Looking at the CIF playoffs, you see public schools completely competetive with private schools, so I don't really see the advantage.

Private schools do not play under a different set of rules than the public schools, they have to abide by the same CIF rules. The only different rule would be who they can admit.

I think that was the point. It's a pretty significant difference.

You are naive if you think that public school soccer coaches who run top programs don't pull strings and get kids admitted that live way out of their district. I know of three personally right now, and I have known several in the past.

You are naive if you think that public school soccer coaches who run top programs don't pull strings and get kids admitted that live way out of their district. I know of three personally right now, and I have known several in the past.

Things haven't changed since I played. So? Being able to do that for a few players is a bit different than being able to build your team this way.

Things haven't changed since I played. So? Being able to do that for a few players is a bit different than being able to build your team this way.


You seem to have this picture in your head of hordes of National team and ODP soccer players crowding the hallways and practice fields of private schools. If that were the case, then private and religious schools would be sweeping all divisions of the CIF championships. Of course that doesn't happen. People send their children to high schools for other reasons than soccer.

You seem to have this picture in your head of hordes of National team and ODP soccer players crowding the hallways and practice fields of private schools. If that were the case, then private and religious schools would be sweeping all divisions of the CIF championships. Of course that doesn't happen. People send their children to high schools for other reasons than soccer.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/strawman.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man).

Are you denying that the private schools have an advantage when it comes to their player pool?

This is what the Rev does. He makes a statement like, "Private schools build their teams around players they have recruited", then asks you to argue if they have an advantage. Of course Private schools have an advantage, any player can decide to initially go to school there. To say they "build their teams around them" is overstating it.

This is what the Rev does. He makes a statement like, "Private schools build their teams around players they have recruited",

Well, if coaches at public schools are recruiting (bending the rules?), it stands to reason that coaches at private schools do much more of this since they don't have any district limitations.

then asks you to argue if they have an advantage. Of course Private schools have an advantage, any player can decide to initially go to school there.


Indeed. Glad you agree with me.

To say they "build their teams around them" is overstating it.

They don't recruit players? While public schools do? I find that hard to believe.

I don't understand what you are talking about Rev. You are trying to say that Private schools are superior because they build a strong squad by recruiting players while you also say that Public schools do it as well. You are kind of contradicting yourself.

And also it is illegal to "recruit" players and I personally do not know, or have proof that any public or private school does so. If you do, that is different, but if you don't I think accusations schould be reserved until u have proof.

This argument is pointless, since Rev. Paul has a fixed idea and no one can change it.
I'm just going to make two points and then leave it.

1.IF private schools have this enormous advantage in recruiting, then why aren't they constantly winning CIF championships at all division levels? True, there are private powerhouses, but there are also public school powerhouses.

2. Private schools have no district limitations, it is true. But they have two other things that public schools do not: Entrance exams and tuition. So private school soccer coaches can't just go down to the Polo fields and recruit any premier player they see. If the kid can't pass the entrance exam and if mom and dad can't make the tuition, it ain't happening.

I don't understand what you are talking about Rev.

No surprise there.

You are trying to say that Private schools are superior because they build a strong squad by recruiting players while you also say that Public schools do it as well. You are kind of contradicting yourself.

God. Think hard. The public schools have to "pull strings" to get these players. Private schools don't. Who will be better at getting the players they want? C'mon, you can figure it out.

It's really not that difficult to understand. You almost had it earlier when you wrote "course Private schools have an advantage". Don't know why you question it now.

Does this count as recruiting? Do coaches recruit? Probably pretty naive to think that some of this doesn't go on. And there are probably ways to "recruit" that are within the rules. And you accuse me of arguing semantics.

And also it is illegal to "recruit" players and I personally do not know, or have proof that any public or private school does so. If you do, that is different, but if you don't I think accusations schould be reserved until u have proof.

Ask Toon Army. He knows the "string pullers".

Ask Toon Army. He knows the "string pullers".[/QUOTE]

I was wondering if you were ever going to answer my questions?

Rev, you can be as condescending as you like, you still aren't answering my questions. First, I didn't say that Private schools recruit, I said that they have an advantage because students from outside their district can choose to go there. The discussion we are having has nothing to do with enrollment zones and flexibilities, it is about recruiting. If you say there is recruiting going on, then say that. Don't say I am naive because you state a vague fact without proof and expect me to just accept it. I have been involved with HS soccer for 10 years as a coach and have coached at Private and Public schools and have never seen any of that go on. I have always heard ignorant people such as yourself spit propaganda and spread the lies about it going on. But I have never seen or heard and actual proof. Could it be going on, absolutely, but I am tired of people like yourself using forums like this to promote your own biased opinions. Give me proof, or don't say it. It is quite different to say that in some occasions it might be happening then to say that private schools build their team through it. Let's have some integrity here Reverend.

And for the record, there are no "legal" ways to recruit.

I only know girls soccer. I think it is laughable that the private schools are supposed to have some huge advantage through recruiting athletes, and I have asked some direct questions which, as you have seen, have not been answered. The big schools in OC have great teams because they are drawing for a big talent pool. Smaller private schools struggle.
As to public schools, I will tell you that I personally know of three girls over the last 5 years, went to three different public high schools, did not live in the district, and were recruited by the soccer coaches. These three schools are all perennial contenders and these girls are all premier level players. I am sure that it is very rare, but it does happen.

Got no mule in this race. Just curious. What's the score, this years U16 Arsenal vs last years Div 1 CIF co-champ Santa Margarita?

In looking at Divisions 1 and 2 for the boys back to 2003 (since we are talking about the big, private schools), of the 20 teams to make the CIF Finals, 9 have been private schools (in division 1, the last 2 finals have actually consisted only of private schools). Now I know the argument will be "see 11 public and 9 private" but the question has to be to the proportion of public to private schools. On these statistics one would expect for there to be slightly more public schools than private schools competing.

Now I am not saying there is any cheating going on (it wouldn't surprise me if it was), but I am saying that there is an advantage. If you would also look at some of the other schools mentioned (Temecula Valley and Clovis), they pull from a larger area as well. Less schools and less clubs leads to a higher concentration of players that play together. In looking at these schools, they are more likely to have more players that play together on the same club team, than takes place at most other public schools. Again, I am not saying cheating, but advantage.

Rev, you can be as condescending as you like, you still aren't answering my questions. First, I didn't say that Private schools recruit, I said that they have an advantage because students from outside their district can choose to go there. The discussion we are having has nothing to do with enrollment zones and flexibilities, it is about recruiting.

No. That's the discussion you're trying to have. I don't particularly care whether or not the schools are recruiting. Private schools have a significant advantage when it comes to putting together teams. That's all I've been trying to say. Public schools have to "pull strings" to get players that are fair game for the private schools. This is an advantage. Whether this means the schools have found a way to recruit or not (and how else does a team pull in an out of district player?) is orthogonal to my point and a different discussion (one that conveniently distracts from my point).

Discuss recruiting with Toon Army. He seems to know players who were recruited.

Ask Toon Army. He knows the "string pullers".

I was wondering if you were ever going to answer my questions?[/QUOTE]

Why aren't the private schools winning more than their share of championships? CapnKeano has shown that they are.

Before I turn to more important matters like helping my nearby neighbors who lost their homes in the fire, I thought I would address the recent twist on this thread.

Wow. Using the fires as some sort of cheap emotional ploy to win favor? That's pretty ugly.

Remember folks, in response to fontanaleague's original post, RP opined that hs soccer was so detrimental to a soccer player's development that RP, in his great widsom brought from on high, advised against playing hs soccer.

This is an outright lie. I've never advised this. As a matter of fact, I think most kids should play HS if they want.

Now, in a completely nonsensical twist brought on by RP's irrelevant meanderings, RP now opines that private hs soccer programs are better than public hs programs.

Sure. Generally.

Mstaub and others, take heart, for you have won the original argument: If high school is as detrimental to a player's development as RP so ignorantly opined originally, then why would so many players (including Premier level and ODP players from all around the Southland) play hs soccer

Because it's fun for them? Because there is no other options? Really, this isn't difficult to figure out. Because there are other reasons to play HS soccer than development? Because of peer pressure?

If you really can't come up with reasons to play HS soccer other than player development, you may lack imagination. And have ignored the myriad of other discussions about this topic.

and why would RP engage in a debate about whether private hs soccer produces better teams than public hs soccer?

Why not. That's thread drift for you. Pretty common on internet message boards.

It's not clear whether fontanaleague is still following this thread. However, if he/she is, what is clear is that high school soccer is alive and well in SoCal, warts and all.

Another thing that's common on message boards: straw man arguments.

And that's a great thing for soccer players, both socially and athletically.

All in all, fontanaleague, unless your son is playing in an academy league, even the contradictory RP believes your son or dd should play hs soccer.

You're a loony. I've never said any different.

Wow. Using the fires as some sort of cheap emotional ploy to win favor? That's pretty ugly.



This is an outright lie. I've never advised this. As a matter of fact, I think most kids should play HS if they want.



Sure. Generally.



Because it's fun for them? Because there is no other options? Really, this isn't difficult to figure out. Because there are other reasons to play HS soccer than development? Because of peer pressure?

If you really can't come up with reasons to play HS soccer other than player development, you may lack imagination. And have ignored the myriad of other discussions about this topic.



Why not. That's thread drift for you. Pretty common on internet message boards.



Another thing that's common on message boards: straw man arguments.



You're a loony. I've never said any different.




We're all loony. So leave the decision making about whether kids should participate in HS soccer to our sons and daughter. We may offer our opinion, and opinions only, but the ultimate decision should always be theirs to make.

We're all loony. So leave the decision making about whether kids should participate in HS soccer to our sons and daughter. We may offer our opinion, and opinions only, but the ultimate decision should always be theirs to make.

You got that right!

It's not clear whether fontanaleague is still following this thread. However, if he/she is, what is clear is that high school soccer is alive and well in SoCal, warts and all. And that's a great thing for soccer players, both socially and athletically.



If HS soccer is alive and well in SoCal, why is there not one (not ONE) SoCal team in the National Top 25 (there are, however, 2 top 25 teams from NorCal). There are several club programs that are top 25 caliber, why the disparity?

IMO it is because HS soccer in SoCal is weak.

Having said all of that, if my DDs want to play for their crappy (and I mean CRAPPY) HS team, then I will not stand in their way. Kids do it for the fun and the attention, I wouldn't deny them that!

If HS soccer is alive and well in SoCal, why is there not one (not ONE) SoCal team in the National Top 25 (there are, however, 2 top 25 teams from NorCal). There are several club programs that are top 25 caliber, why the disparity?

IMO it is because HS soccer in SoCal is weak.

Having said all of that, if my DDs want to play for their crappy (and I mean CRAPPY) HS team, then I will not stand in their way. Kids do it for the fun and the attention, I wouldn't deny them that!

Because So Cal teams don't play in the fall?

If HS soccer is alive and well in SoCal, why is there not one (not ONE) SoCal team in the National Top 25 (there are, however, 2 top 25 teams from NorCal). There are several club programs that are top 25 caliber, why the disparity?

IMO it is because HS soccer in SoCal is weak.

Having said all of that, if my DDs want to play for their crappy (and I mean CRAPPY) HS team, then I will not stand in their way. Kids do it for the fun and the attention, I wouldn't deny them that!

As Espola points out, SoCal high school teams are not ranked in the top 25 nationally in Fall High Soccer Soccer because high school soccer is a Winter Sport in Southern California.

Parents apparently post for the fun and attention. I wouldn't deny that.

As Espola points out, SoCal high school teams are not ranked in the top 25 nationally in Fall High Soccer Soccer because high school soccer is a Winter Sport in Southern California.

Parents apparently post for the fun and attention. I wouldn't deny that.

OK, I learned something new. As a parent of a 6th and 8th grader, I didn't know. I stand corrected (actually I am sitting).

I post to engage in conversations from which I can learn about youth soccer - it appears to be working. Glad you all know more than I.

KF blnk

Keeperfan,

I don't know of a single player who plays for his or her hs team to help with their team's ranking in the "National Top 25." Who the he*# cares?

Take Girls' Surf for example. Girls from those teams consistently are recruited by D-I schools based on their club team's performance (and, of course, their individual play within that team setting). Do you think offers are rescinded if a particular girl's hs team doesn't make the "National Top 25" list? Of course not.

HS soccer is alive and well in SoCal because thousands of student-athletes choose to play for their hs team for the social benefits, the community accolades, and the opportunity to have continued touches on the ball in a game setting while their club team is on hiatus.

I'd be curious to know what part of SoCal you live in where the hs team is so CRAPPY. Is it the coach, the pool of players, or a combination?


I never said that playing HS soccer would impair a player's chances to make a D1 college team. I agree that recruiting is done almost exclusively at the club level so playing HS soccer can only be for the fun and prestige. No they don't do it to make their team a top 25, I was just observing that with so much talent in SoCal, that noe of the teams were highly ranked. You all have explained to me that it is because we play HS soccer in the winter (when it is snowing in places like New Jersey).

Not all of us are "lucky" enough to go to schools with 3000 kids. Our local HS is 180 per class, so the pool of players is small and the team is weak - even by CIF D6 standards. So there may not be as much of a benefit for those attending smaller schools with less developed programs as there is for those who attend larger schools. My dds will likely be disapointed with the level of play at our HS, so they may opt out. Then again they may not.....

Not all HS programs are created equal, so the decision will be different for each player.

The individual son/daughter should be the one invovled in deciding to play or not play HS soccer with the parents support of their decision. Just a side note: Didn't Landon Donavon play HS soccer? Yes, he has stated that he was beat up playing, but overall liked playing HS soccer. Let the individual make their decisions.

I don't want to sound obvious, but in the end the player is the one playing and practicng, not the parent. So, the player should be the one who decides and the parents can help but not choose. In the end it is all about if playing hs soccer would be fun for the player b/c it doesn't really affect college recruiting (or atleast that its what I've heard).

Girls' Soccer Team Spends Season in a World of Hurt

By Eli Saslow
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 24, 2007; E01

There were signs, all right. Plenty of them. Like on the first day of practice, before anyone had even changed into soccer cleats, when Rachel Davidson finished her timed two-mile sprint and collapsed on the track with a hip pointer. Or during the team's preseason sleepover, when Kathryn Barth bruised herself by walking smack into the closed glass door of a restaurant. Or midway through a light workout in August, when Retha Koefoed bent over to pick up a ball and aggravated a stress fracture in her back.

The Whitman Curse, players called it. It was more of a joke than anything. Long before three concussions, a fainting spell, four sprained ankles and two torn anterior cruciate ligaments derailed its season, the girls' soccer team at Whitman High School had so many reasons to be optimistic.

A few days before the team's first game of the season, Coach Greg Herbert stood in front of his 22 varsity players and read them a list of 12 team goals for 2007. Herbert wanted Whitman to go undefeated in home games. To allow opponents less than one goal on average. To sweep Bethesda area rivals. To win a state championship.

"Look around at the girls you're playing with," Herbert told his team. "We have a ton of talent here. We can accomplish every one of these goals. It starts now, working every day in practice, making the right decisions. Everything's in our control."

The last two months at Whitman have challenged that hypothesis. Recent studies have shown that more girls are injured playing soccer than any other sport, and the game becomes particularly risky at the high school level. Soccer results in the highest frequency of concussions among female athletes, doctors believe, and girls are at least twice as likely to suffer serious knee and ankle injuries than boys are.

Local varsity coaches blame the problem on too much soccer. Girls who play for year-round club teams enter the high school season tired, coaches said, and their nagging injuries quickly turn serious without sufficient rest. What results is an injury rash that has affected even the most successful area teams this season. Three players at River Hill tend to ankle injuries; two starters at Bethesda-Chevy Chase will miss the postseason because of ligament damage.

No school, though, has suffered quite like Whitman. When the Vikings (8-6) open the playoffs Friday at Sherwood, Herbert will direct a team that is changed drastically since he outlined its goals in August. More than half of Whitman's players missed at least one regular season game because of sickness or injury. Five starters sat out at least half the team's games. On the verge of the postseason, Herbert sometimes speaks like a man resigned to cosmic fate.

"We can still do damage," he said. "But who knows when lightning will strike next?"
A Wish: One Healthy Season

Since she arrived at Whitman, Meaghan Doherty has kept a habit of popping a few pain relief pills before the start of each practice. The medicine eases her soreness, she said, and two pills numb the pain in her knees and ankles just long enough to coax her body through a few hours on the field. Then, if Doherty's soreness returns at home, she takes a few pain relievers again before bed.

A junior midfielder with a powerful foot, Doherty has the potential to become one of Whitman's most prolific scorers. She started playing soccer at age 3 and progressed to a regional travel team just after she turned 8. Doherty's elite-level club team, the Bethesda Sharks, practices for 10 months each year and plays indoor soccer during the winter. A few weeks before Doherty started her junior season at Whitman, she traveled with the Sharks to a 10-day tournament in Brazil.

Before Whitman met for its first practice, Herbert wrote Doherty a letter, extolling her natural talent and imploring her to become a team leader in 2007. Doherty read the note, time and time again, and vowed in preseason to fulfill Herbert's expectations. But one nagging thought muted Doherty's confidence: First, I need to stay healthy for a whole season. Just once.

Doherty had cracked a growth plate in her right knee early in her freshman year and missed several games. When she returned to the field, Doherty overcompensated by relying too heavily on her left leg. A few months later, she suffered severe cartilage and bone damage to her left knee -- an injury that required the insertion of two screws, two surgeries and consultations with a specialist in Boston. After six months of rehabilitation and recovery, Doherty returned to play her sophomore season. She tore a ligament in her left ankle and missed the playoffs.

"It's like I spend more time with doctors and in hospitals than I actually spend playing," Doherty said early this season. "It's almost funny now. I'm always recovering from something. At some point, am I actually going to be healthy?"

Doherty's cycle of pain-relievers propelled her through Whitman's first four games this season, until she jumped to head a corner kick against Blair High School in mid-September. Doherty collided first with the ball, then with the lower jaw of teammate Emily Mason. Mason's two front teeth jarred loose, eventually requiring a retainer to stabilize her jaw. Doherty walked off woozily with a concussion -- "not that big of an injury," she said -- and decided to take a few days off.

When Doherty returned to the lineup a week later, she suffered what felt like another concussion. Then, at a house party in late September, she went to fix her hair in the bathroom and fainted. Doctors blamed the episode on a combination of concussions, dehydration and possible heat exhaustion. They told Doherty to sit out for at least three weeks, but she expects to compete in the postseason.

"Hey Herbert, I think I might actually get to play," Doherty told her coach during a practice this month.

"Oh yeah?" Herbert said. "How about that? Meaghan Doherty, actually on a soccer field during the playoffs."

"Yeah," Doherty said. "But I'll probably come back to practice and get injured picking up a water bottle or something."
'A Mess' of a Field

As the regular season wore on and hurt athletes who watched practice outnumbered healthy ones who actually participated, Whitman's injured players would sit in lawn chairs on the edge of the practice field and try to make sense of what had befallen them.

Like most high school teams, Whitman holds two-hour practices each weekday afternoon and plays about 15 games during the season, a workload that sometimes leads to tendinitis in knees and ankles, players said. The Vikings lack a consistent team trainer, so they rely instead on a lunch-pail first-aid kit consisting mainly of ice packs and athletic tape.

The team practices at an overgrown, patchy field at Bradley Hills Elementary School. The gnat-infested field is overwhelmed by weeds, which tend to seize feet and ankles.

"Every year, we lose at least two players because this place is such a mess," Doherty said one afternoon during practice. "You get hurt just running on it."

"Yeah," said Mason, a sophomore defender. "But we get hurt running on anything."

Whitman won the first five games it played against public schools. Then, with several top players sidelined, the Vikings lost three of their next four. Rachel Haas, a senior captain, visited a chiropractor to manage back pain. Alex Berg and Diana Walter twisted their ankles. Koefoed, a sought-after recruit, recovered from her back injury only to sprain her ankle -- three times.

Julie McCabe and Sarah Schmidt tore their ACLs while making quick cuts during games in September. As their teammates readied for the second half of the season, McCabe and Schmidt scheduled surgeries and physical therapy. Both hoped to fully recover within six or seven months.

"If you're a girl playing soccer, you're at anywhere from two to eight times greater risk of an ACL injury," said Andrew Cosgarea, director of Sports Medicine at Johns Hopkins. "There are a lot of possible factors: the hips, the angles of the knees, the hormonal aspects. It just takes a sudden stop, usually associated with a change of direction, and it happens in an instant."

On a Wednesday afternoon early this month, McCabe watched her teammates practice and then drove to a small rehabilitation center in Northwest Washington, where she was working to strengthen her knee before surgery. McCabe took off her shoes and lifted herself onto a blue medical table. At the instruction of a physical therapist, she extended her legs and bent at the waist, stretching for her toes.

"Ooh, this kills," McCabe said. "This hurts so much."

"I know," said Lydia Ilieva, her physical therapist. "This is going to be hard."

A varsity captain for both the soccer and basketball teams, McCabe had expected to stare down challenges during her senior year. She had hoped to win state titles in both sports to attract the attention of New England college coaches, to balance an incessant practice schedule with her roles as class vice president and co-editor of the student newspaper.

When McCabe's father called her cellphone during a school day in September to read her the results of her MRI exam, she cried in class while envisioning her diminished senior year. She would have to wait for the swelling in the knee to go down, submit to surgery and walk with crutches. Then, if all went well, she would spend hundreds more hours here in the rehabilitation center, stretching on a medical table.

"This is pathetic," McCabe said, grimacing. "I can't even touch my toes."
Sobs, Then Stunned Silence

On Senior Night, McCabe walked onto the field in flip-flops to accept a gift basket from her teammates. She hugged her parents and then sat at the edge of the Whitman bench next to Doherty. The two injured stars had become part coaches, part fans and part trainers.

Doherty and McCabe watched as Whitman fell behind, 1-0, to Wootton -- "We just don't have anybody left who can score," Doherty complained -- and implored their teammates to attack more aggressively in the second half. Moments later, Koefoed collided with a Wootton defender and fell to the turf, grabbing her already sprained left ankle.

McCabe and Herbert ran onto the field, lifted Koefoed and helped her to the bench. Koefoed collapsed onto the aluminum slab, sobbing and clutching her ankle. As the game resumed, Doherty riffled through the Whitman medical kit and searched for a solution.

"There's some medical tape in here," Doherty said. "Do you want me to wrap it?"

"No, don't touch it," Koefoed gasped between sobs. "Just leave it alone."

"We got ice packets," Doherty offered. "Want those?"

"God, I don't know!" Koefoed said, shouting now. "Oh God. I think I need to go to the emergency room."

Doherty pulled out her cellphone and called Koefoed's mom, who walked from her seat in the bleachers and gave her daughter three Tylenols. An athletic trainer working at a nearby field hockey game arrived at the bench with a fresh bag of ice. The Whitman athletic director drove over in a golf cart, so he could give Koefoed a ride off the field.

Before Koefoed hobbled onto the cart -- headed first for her mother's car and then for emergency room, where she would again be diagnosed with a severely sprained ankle -- a large group gathered around her. Whitman had invited a team of 6-, 7- and 8-year-old girls to watch the game from the sideline, and the young soccer players instinctively walked toward the screaming. Behind Koefoed, defender Mason lay face down on the track with a towel wrapped around her head, because commotion and the glare of the stadium lights had aggravated her recent concussion. A few Whitman players rubbed Koefoed's shoulders.

"I have crutches in my car," McCabe told Koefoed. "They're in my trunk. Do you want them?"

"No," Koefoed said.

"In all seriousness, my ankle hurts, too," said Haas, the senior captain. "Not as badly as yours, but it hurts."

"Great," Koefoed said. "Mine hurts way worse right now. I guarantee it."

Koefoed lifted herself from the bench and hobbled toward the golf cart, grimacing with each step. The Whitman players turned back to face the field, where their team had fallen behind by two goals. The 6-, 7- and 8-year-olds, stunned into silence, kept their eyes on the cart as Koefoed road away.

My dd wants to play. I think she likes competing with all her ex-teammates and the older girls. I think she really likes the social activity of it all.
I leave the decision up to her, I don't really care if she plays or not.
Injuries can happen at any time so it is always a risk. High School as a whole is something they will remember and cherrish those memories by being active at their school in whatever they choose.


ts

My dd wants to play. I think she likes competing with all her ex-teammates and the older girls. I think she really likes the social activity of it all.
I leave the decision up to her, I don't really care if she plays or not.
Injuries can happen at any time so it is always a risk. High School as a whole is something they will remember and cherrish those memories by being active at their school in whatever they choose.


ts

My son can't wait for HS games to start. Like your dd, he likes competing against his club teammates, and ex-teammates.

My player just transferred to a new HS and the cost for playing soccer is $500.00. They say this includes transport and uniform costs. Is this outrageous or the norm out there? Help me ohmy get a grip, pleassee!

My player just transferred to a new HS and the cost for playing soccer is $500.00. They say this includes transport and uniform costs. Is this outrageous or the norm out there? Help me ohmy get a grip, pleassee!
This fee is not outside the norm. Transportation to/from games is no longer paid for by the State.

Yep, $350 per kid. New uniforms for Varsity and we just got new ones last year. This $350 doesn't count the sweatshirts, money for "secret sister" gifts, coaches gifts, $$$ for food for away games, $$$ to chip in for the team potlucks.....

$350 + $75 for transportation...that includes 2 practice shirts, a long sleeve shirt, and a soccer sweatshirt... but not for anything else. pretty good compared to club

[pretty good compared to club]

Yes if they only play HS, this will be on top of club for majority of players and then there is leaving work early to catch their games, travel to each HS=more gas.
Your kids playing with friends and against friends in HS and representing their school=priceless

Yep, $350 per kid. New uniforms for Varsity and we just got new ones last year. This $350 doesn't count the sweatshirts, money for "secret sister" gifts, coaches gifts, $$$ for food for away games, $$$ to chip in for the team potlucks.....
Nobody told me my son was going to get a "secret sister" jmp